Is there an ‘ideal’ deer caliber?

[Pete6.5]

Anything other than a horrible 270

 

[Rafter]

If you're a reloader, 280 Rem with an 8 twist barrel.

Or 7x64, same same.

Or 7mm SAUM, even more betterer.

 

[Loler UK]

If you're a reloader, 280 Rem with an 8 twist barrel.

Or 7x64, same same.

Or 7mm SAUM, even more betterer.

7saum, at last someone talking some sense. The short fat brother of the 7RM not quite as fast but younger and somehow cooler

Why isn't 284 win more popular with stalkers? It seems to do pretty well on the range?

 

[rem284]

For me, most calibres are good. However, they aren’t all perfect.

The .243 is good but could possibly be argued as being on the small side to be perfect’ for all sizes of deer in the uk. I also think that you might as well forget about lead core bullets, despite incessant moaning by smellydog and a few others on here lead core bullets are dead in terms of deer management in the uk so the ‘perfect calibre’ will be really well suited to monolithic ammunition. As monolithic bullets work best with high impact velocity the perfect calibre will have a mix of high bc and high muzzle velocity.

I have already ruled out the 6mm, and the 25 cals and 270 cals tend to have poor bc so we can cross these out too. This leaves the 6.5, 7mm and 30 cals. The 30 cals can be pushed fast, but generally in cartridges that generate a bit more recoil, noise and cost than is needed for uk deer. The .308 as much as it can worth with non toxic can also perform miserably with hard bullets at longer ranges.

So now we are getting narrowed down. I think the fast 7mm can be crossed out for the same reason as the 30 cals, I would like magnum velocity to squeeze out a bit of performance from monolithic bullets. I personally shoot a 7mm rem mag and get on well with it but feel like it is a bit much for someone who doesn’t get much trigger time. It’s also very expensive to feed.

Now onto the 6.5mm. I have used both a 6.5x284 and a 6.5 creedmoor extensively on deer. After previously owning the 6.5x284 my current 6.5 creedmoor is very vanilla on deer. It has a loopy trajectory in comparison and the reduction in thump on larger deer is noticeable. It works, but I definitely prefer the 6.5x284, and this is even more so when shooting monolithics.

I’m not able to recommend the 6.5x284 as being perfect as rifles and factory ammo is non existent, you need to order a custom rifle and homeload your ammo, so because of this I would have to put forward the 6.5 prc as the perfect round for uk deer. It’s pretty available, low recoiling, shoots fast high bc bullets and has enough thump for everything in the uk.

Absolutely this

 

[griff]

For me, most calibres are good. However, they aren’t all perfect.

The .243 is good but could possibly be argued as being on the small side to be perfect’ for all sizes of deer in the uk. I also think that you might as well forget about lead core bullets, despite incessant moaning by smellydog and a few others on here lead core bullets are dead in terms of deer management in the uk so the ‘perfect calibre’ will be really well suited to monolithic ammunition. As monolithic bullets work best with high impact velocity the perfect calibre will have a mix of high bc and high muzzle velocity.

I have already ruled out the 6mm, and the 25 cals and 270 cals tend to have poor bc so we can cross these out too. This leaves the 6.5, 7mm and 30 cals. The 30 cals can be pushed fast, but generally in cartridges that generate a bit more recoil, noise and cost than is needed for uk deer. The .308 as much as it can worth with non toxic can also perform miserably with hard bullets at longer ranges.

So now we are getting narrowed down. I think the fast 7mm can be crossed out for the same reason as the 30 cals, I would like magnum velocity to squeeze out a bit of performance from monolithic bullets. I personally shoot a 7mm rem mag and get on well with it but feel like it is a bit much for someone who doesn’t get much trigger time. It’s also very expensive to feed.

Now onto the 6.5mm. I have used both a 6.5x284 and a 6.5 creedmoor extensively on deer. After previously owning the 6.5x284 my current 6.5 creedmoor is very vanilla on deer. It has a loopy trajectory in comparison and the reduction in thump on larger deer is noticeable. It works, but I definitely prefer the 6.5x284, and this is even more so when shooting monolithics.

I’m not able to recommend the 6.5x284 as being perfect as rifles and factory ammo is non existent, you need to order a custom rifle and homeload your ammo, so because of this I would have to put forward the 6.5 prc as the perfect round for uk deer. It’s pretty available, low recoiling, shoots fast high bc bullets and has enough thump for everything in the uk.

Would you care to clarify why the above have poor BC.

 

[Heym SR20]

As usual lots of mention of high BC bullets, copper bullets, must have fast twist barrels yadda yadda yadda

Of course the 7x57 has always had a fast twist barrel - it was designed to shoot long for calibre 173gn bullets.

The 6.5x55 - also designed in last decade of the century before last was doing the same.

 

[Rafter]

7saum, at last someone talking some sense. The short fat brother of the 7RM not quite as fast but younger and somehow cooler

Why isn't 284 win more popular with stalkers? It seems to do pretty well on the range?

162 grains @2800-3000 fps takes care of anything that doesn't want to eat or stomp you from 0-500m

 

[RCS Deer Management]

As usual lots of mention of high BC bullets, copper bullets, must have fast twist barrels yadda yadda yadda

Of course the 7x57 has always had a fast twist barrel - it was designed to shoot long for calibre 173gn bullets.

The 6.5x55 - also designed in last decade of the century before last was doing the same.

Iv shot 7x57 for years. It’s a great cartridge, I just wouldn’t say that it’s perfect. Ammunition availability and quality in the uk is dismal especially in non toxic factory ammo. This instantly rules it out as the ‘perfect’ cartridge for deer management in my books. Like my old 6.5x284, you need to homeload for it really, or be happy crippling your effective range using mild factory ammunition, which I’m not

 

[RCS Deer Management]

Would you care to clarify why the above have poor BC.

Ask the bullet manufacturers, they are the ones that have never produced them

 

[NP435]

Folks I’ve been humming over a new rifle for a while now and I’ve been toying between a 6.5 and a .30 cal,(mainly an 06).

The more I look into it, there seems to be a lot of plus points for a high BC bullet.

The 6.5’s recoil less. Even if we tolerate recoil well, in theory, there is increased gun movement and higher recoil is harder to shoot as accurately.

But the .30 cals,(mainly the 06) can be used for almost anything bar dangerous game.

The Americans seem to really rate the 7mm’s at the moment as a happy medium between recoil and down range efficacy.

I was listening to an interesting gunwerks podcast recently and they were chatting about moving away from a ‘bigger hole is better’ and more towards high BC bullets minimising effects of wind and drop, so easier to hit the target.

Now I appreciate most of our deer are probably shot at around 150 yards so this becomes academic.. but is a 6.5 creedmore the boring, sensible, cover most boxes caliber these days? Or is the .30-06 still the one rifle to fill a cabinet that covers everything?

If I had only one and had quit shooting sage rats it would be a 30-06, however if only deer and pronghorn with sage rats my choice would be a 243 I might use it on elk with a projectile intended to not break up such as the Barnes TTSX.

 

[6pt-sika]

My rifles at present are all deer compatible . 243 , 6mm-06 , 6.5x54 MS , 260 , 6.5-06 , 6.5 Sherman Short Mag , 26 Nosler , 270 , 7x57 , 308 and 30-06 . Also have a 222 but I deem that a bit light .

 

[HonestJohn]

I don’t think ammo availability, or lack of, has to define if the 7x57 can be the perfect all rounder!

If I want to reload, I will, and if I don’t, then it’s not hard to ask any decent RFD to order 250-500 rounds of ammo I know works. Which, should last a fair wee while. There are plenty of good options out there.

Defining a perfect calibre based on being able to buy dribs and drabs of ammo, 20 here and 20 there as you run out or stop by the next town, is ludicrous.

We all know the 7mm Mauser and 222rem are gods chosen ones. Stop arguing about it

 

[RCS Deer Management]

I don’t think ammo availability, or lack of, has to define if the 7x57 can be the perfect all rounder!

If I want to reload, I will, and if I don’t, then it’s not hard to ask any decent RFD to order 250-500 rounds of ammo I know works. Which, should last a fair wee while. There are plenty of good options out there.

Defining a perfect calibre based on being able to buy dribs and drabs of ammo, 20 here and 20 there as you run out or stop by the next town, is ludicrous.

We all know the 7mm Mauser and 222rem are gods chosen ones. Stop arguing about it

I suppose I’m influenced by my work and needing to get hold of large numbers of ammunition. This is much easier in a cartridge supported well by manufacturers. Also, when I was using 7x57 pretty much all non toxic factory ammunition was loaded extremely mild. Anyway, at least I defined why I liked certain cartridges. Most others, you included have just stated that a certain cartridge is the best but haven’t been able to tell us why.

 

[Border]

This is basically untrue as copper is less dense than lead so longer bullets are required and .243 .270 doesn’t have the twist rate to support longer bullets in general. That said they both can shoot copper but not optimal weights and lengths

I think that Sako/Tikka have moved to a 1-8" for the 243Win so there should no longer be issues for most 80-85 grain non lead bullets stabilising.

 

[Rob-E]

Folks I’ve been humming over a new rifle for a while now and I’ve been toying between a 6.5 and a .30 cal,(mainly an 06).

The more I look into it, there seems to be a lot of plus points for a high BC bullet.

The 6.5’s recoil less. Even if we tolerate recoil well, in theory, there is increased gun movement and higher recoil is harder to shoot as accurately.

But the .30 cals,(mainly the 06) can be used for almost anything bar dangerous game.

The Americans seem to really rate the 7mm’s at the moment as a happy medium between recoil and down range efficacy.

I was listening to an interesting gunwerks podcast recently and they were chatting about moving away from a ‘bigger hole is better’ and more towards high BC bullets minimising effects of wind and drop, so easier to hit the target.

Now I appreciate most of our deer are probably shot at around 150 yards so this becomes academic.. but is a 6.5 creedmore the boring, sensible, cover most boxes caliber these days? Or is the .30-06 still the one rifle to fill a cabinet that covers everything?

No. Otherwise my FEO wouldn’t have let me have 4 deer calibres on my certificate.

 

[Rob-E]

I think that Sako/Tikka have moved to a 1-8" for the 243Win so there should no longer be issues for most 80-85 grain non lead bullets stabilising.

I shoot a 1:10 twist and shoot 85gr copper no issues at all

 

[griff]

Ask the bullet manufacturers, they are the ones that have never produced them

From Hornady website:
25 cal eld 649 G1
25 cal Atip 695 G1
270 cal sst 525 G1
30 cal eld 523 G1
30 cal Atip 878 G1

Are these not good enough?
The problem is most only shoot at a distance that BC is irrelevant...

 

[RCS Deer Management]

From Hornady website:
25 cal eld 649 G1
25 cal Atip 695 G1
270 cal sst 525 G1
30 cal eld 523 G1
30 cal Atip 878 G1

Are these not good enough?
The problem is most only shoot at a distance that BC is irrelevant...

The problem is those bullets are soon to be obsolete for deer.

6mm 90gr cx - bc .418
25 cal 90gr cx - bc .273
6.5 cal 130gr cx - bc .489
270 cal 130gr cx - bc .403
7mm 160gr cx - bc .596

The difference is obvious. I’m not trying to say that bc is the only thing that matters, it’s not, but there is no downside to choosing a cartridge that shoots higher bc bullets, it’s a free advantage. Plug those into a ballistic calculator, the difference in ballistics between a 25 or 270 and a 6.5 or 7mm is relevant, especially with monolithics that need to stay above 2200fps to perform well.

 

[griff]

I took your advice and ran a ballistic program especially when you said, "the difference in ballistics between a 25 or 270 and a 6.5 or 7mm is relevant".

Using Barnes LRX's and Berger Ballistics
Drop @ 300yds Wind(15mph)300yds Recoil ftlbs Velocity @ 300yds
243 95gn lrx BC 436 @ 3116 10.26 9.83" 7.3 2466
25-06 100gn lrx BC 400 @ 3348 8.66 9.86" 11.5 2608
6.5 creed 127gn lrx BC 468 @ 2883 12.32" 10.31" 10.4 2305

270 Win 155gn lrx BC 540 @ 2930 11.30" 8.42" 16.1 2429
7mm RM 168gn lrx BC 550 @ 2932 11.13 8.17" 21.8 2448
30-06 175gn lrx BC 508 @ 2776 11.34 8.92" 18.2 2254

30-06 120gn barnes BC 358 @3450 8.26 10.76 2612 my pet load for the 06

 

[griff]

25 lowest drop @ 8.66"
6.5 highest drop @12.32"
243 least drift @ 9.83"
6.5 highest drift @ 10.31"

270/7mm Rm/30-06 all within .2" drop @ 300yds 25-06 best of them all.