DSC1 material - anal contraction

[alexjoneill]

Howdy folks,
Revisiting and having a read through the DSC1 manual as a refresher and saw this line under the Initial External Inspection section:

"Having first ascertained a deer is dead by Checking for eye blink reaction or anal contraction...."

Haven't heard of this second check before and a quick Google/search on this forum didn't return anything obvious and I was just curious about when and if this method would be useful (if at all) & what your actually checking for?

Just curiosity really as surely the eye blink test is the best/most reliable approach and is considered common practice....

 

[User00056]

Well, speaking for myself, if I was pretending to be dead someone poking a finger up my ass would soon prove me a liar

 

[Pete6.5]

I think it's called a anal wink reflex

 

[Buchan]

It's a thing. However the corneal reflex is a far better indicator of death

 

[oxfordshirestalker]

I think it's called a anal wink reflex

Look up the ‘bulbocavernosus reflex’. (Not quite what you’re suggesting). Not a reliable indicator of brain stem death.

 

[merlin]

I strongly suggest you don't Google "anus poking".

Don't ask me how I know

 

[alexjoneill]

Look up the ‘bulbocavernosus reflex’. (Not quite what you’re suggesting). Not a reliable indicator of brain stem death.

Thanks, I wouldn't have found that on my own!
Interesting read and helps explain it a bit better!

I was just surprised when I read it as didn't sound as reliable as the eye check

 

[Pete6.5]

Look up the ‘bulbocavernosus reflex’. (Not quite what you’re suggesting). Not a reliable indicator of brain stem death.

Just what I was told along time ago but it's not my preferred method of checking it's dead.

 

[oxfordshirestalker]

In essence the corneal reflex is controlled by cranial nerves (which originate from the brain stem which controls core functions) whereas the ‘bum wink’ is a spinal nerve reflex with little input from the brain. These reflexes can persist after death.

 

[Tim.243]

Howdy folks,
Revisiting and having a read through the DSC1 manual as a refresher and saw this line under the Initial External Inspection section:

"Having first ascertained a deer is dead by Checking for eye blink reaction or anal contraction...."

Haven't heard of this second check before and a quick Google/search on this forum didn't return anything obvious and I was just curious about when and if this method would be useful (if at all) & what your actually checking for?

Just curiosity really as surely the eye blink test is the best/most reliable approach and is considered common practice....

An example of movement after a neck shot on this muntjac.

 

[alexjoneill]

In essence the corneal reflex is controlled by cranial nerves (which originate from the brain stem which controls core functions) whereas the ‘bum wink’ is a spinal nerve reflex with little input from the brain. These reflexes can persist after death.

I did wonder if you could have a false positive by nerves and muscle contracting after death doing it this way

I just thought it was odd reading it in the DSC1 manual without any real explanation about the how and why

Also, your told to do the eye reflex check using your sticks (and not your finger) but it sound like you need to be much closer to do the anal check (and if it is alive... I'm sure it wouldn't appreciate you attempting it!)

 

[oxfordshirestalker]

I did wonder if you could have a false positive by nerves and muscle contracting after death doing it this way

I just thought it was odd reading it in the DSC1 manual without any real explanation about the how and why

Also, your told to do the eye reflex check using your sticks (and not your finger) but it sound like you need to be much closer to do the anal check (and if it is alive... I'm sure it wouldn't appreciate you attempting it!)

The reason for doing so with sticks etc. is so you’re not near any antlers if they’re not dead and take objection.

I’m sure poking a deer in the anus would elicit a similar response to poking one with a finger (not that I speak from experience of doing so!)

 

[alexjoneill]

The reason for doing so with sticks etc. is so you’re not near any antlers if they’re not dead and take objection.

I’m sure poking a deer in the anus would elicit a similar response to poking one with a finger (not that I speak from experience of doing so!)

I may be mistaken - the anal check, is this done with sticks or your finger?
The results from googling 'bulbocavernosus reflex' looks like it's your finger (although couldn't see anything specific to deer in the results)

 

[gixer1]

Well, speaking for myself, if I was pretending to be dead someone poking a finger up my ass would soon prove me a liar

It’s completely your fault that my kitchen floor and table is now covered in coffee….

 

[oxfordshirestalker]

I may be mistaken - the anal check, is this done with sticks or your finger?
The results from googling 'bulbocavernosus reflex' looks like it's your finger (although couldn't see anything specific to deer in the results)

Slightly different things - I was using it to explain the differences between cranial nerve and spinal reflexes. I’m not suggesting squeezing a dead deer’s penis!

The BC reflex is something that comes up in human medicine to test sacral spinal nerves where you feel for the effect with a finger (where a stick isn’t going to serve the same purpose and if I got a hazel stick or my quad sticks out at work I might get some funny looks)

 

[alexjoneill]

Slightly different things - I was using it to explain the differences between cranial nerve and spinal reflexes. I’m not suggesting squeezing a dead deer’s penis!

The BC reflex is something that comes up in human medicine to test sacral spinal nerves where you feel for the effect with a finger (where a stick isn’t going to serve the same purpose and if I got a hazel stick or my quad sticks out at work I might get some funny looks)

Thank you
That makes more sense now about the difference between what the two different checks are targeting to get a response

 

[Oldstalker]

A tale from the long distant past.
We were moving deer on an estate in N Lancashire and one of my friends (initials JSN) was sat up a tree. A youngish stag came and stood underneath him so with his stick (red brow tine type handle) he swung it and stuck the stag in the anus. There were four cleat clench marks in the mud and the next set were (NO exaggeration) more than ten feet away where all four legs came down again. We measured the distance and there were no intervening marks in the soil or mud.

 

[Tim.243]

Thank you
That makes more sense now about the difference between what the two different checks are targeting to get a response

On the odd occasion my hangers get stuck in the fat with the weight of the deer hanging in the chiller...
So with a bit of wriggling and they break free.....

 

[Pellet Pinger]

I may be mistaken - the anal check, is this done with sticks or your finger?
The results from googling 'bulbocavernosus reflex' looks like it's your finger (although couldn't see anything specific to deer in the results)

Everyone knows you do it with your tongue……………..

 

[alexjoneill]

Everyone knows you do it with your tongue……………..

I love this forum - so much useful information... And then some true curve ball comments