Fixed scope dilemma.

[Heym SR20]

I honestly dont know what it is, meopta wouldnt go for ab advertised 8x pupil on a meostar r1 without some reason tho, i never knew them to be a gimmick brand. And the 7x56 my friend has is better than his meostar r2 3-12x56 set to 8 at night

It definitely has a nicer eyebox than my zeiss, and i feel like it gives me less eye fatigue. So i had assumed that the larger exit pupil allows your own pupil to relax a little?

I honestly know nothing technical about scopes or really even rifles. point and shoot. Never dialed in the field either. Wich is probably where my distrust of variables comes from, i did use a variable for a while, 3-15x56 for pest shooting.

set it so 12, 10, 15 wathever, at over 160m those 222 rounds where impacting way low.

I determined that i had intuitively judged my target to be way closer based on the reticle. and automatically started reducing holdover as i dialed up. muscle memory from looking at that fat 8x T post for years.

That said, i am thinking i may actually add a diavari T* at some point. I really like that T* coating (i think)

To my eye meopta coatings look a little oversaturated with yellow light. gives a a golden hue to things. The Zeiss MC coating looks good during The day but also seems a bit unnatural. The T* coating has a relaxing soft blue hue to it, its pretty mediocre in daytime but at night it really makes the white tails on the hare pop out.

All optics are very much a personal thing. All our eyes are different.

Meopta were very well regarded in their day. I don’t know about their current generation.

What is however more important than the optical quality is the strength of the scope internals. By far the strongest and most reliable were the older reticle moving scopes where you see the reticle moving inside as you adjust.

With modern scopes its the quality and precision of those internals that matter, especially if you are dialling. Its why scopes such as the S&B PM2 military are so expensive. They are designed to be thrown out aof an aeroplane with a parachuting sniper, dragged through many miles of rough and put a first round hit on a target a mile away.

 

[HonestJohn]

switching the conversation then, How do the Zeiss victory diavari T hold up against other brands in the price range? My mind jumps to zeiss because i like the T* fixed scopes over other 80s scopes and the MC scopes. I just dont know mutch on the modern stuff.

The T coatings are excellent. The later diatal and MC scopes were budget lines from Zeiss, and frankly, disappointing in both glass and build quality. The older gloss and steel tubes diatal and diavari were excellent.

I use a Zeiss HT - ZEISS Victory HT 3-12x56 | The specialist for hunting in low light

This is probably the clearest scope I’ve ever used. Unless you are literally shooting in the pitch black, it renders a day/night scope pointless, - you can see very clearly until after legal shooting hours.

 

[Karhumies]

The T coatings are excellent. The later diatal and MC scopes were budget lines from Zeiss, and frankly, disappointing in both glass and build quality. The older gloss and steel tubes diatal and diavari were excellent.

I use a Zeiss HT - ZEISS Victory HT 3-12x56 | The specialist for hunting in low light

This is probably the clearest scope I’ve ever used. Unless you are literally shooting in the pitch black, it renders a day/night scope pointless, - you can see very clearly until after legal shooting hours.

Do you have legal shooting hours as well? never heard of such a thing until i joined some american forums. Didnt think yhe UK would have it as well

 

[HonestJohn]

Do you have legal shooting hours as well? never heard of such a thing until i joined some american forums. Didnt think yhe UK would have it as well

For deer it’s 1hr before and after sunrise/set.

 

[Karhumies]

For deer it’s 1hr before and after sunrise/set.

ah ok, we dont have that for any animal, hence why i ask so mutch of a scope. I dont even go out before the sun sets unless iam birding.

 

[Karhumies]

So, iam happy with my old fixed scopes but what about variables? how do those hold up to todays mid range?

I found a Zeiss diavari 3-12x56 T* and s S&B 4-12x42. Are these worth getting or Will they loose out to a more modern optic of the same price in low light (700 euro range)

 

[HonestJohn]

So, iam happy with my old fixed scopes but what about variables? how do those hold up to todays mid range?

I found a Zeiss diavari 3-12x56 T* and s S&B 4-12x42. Are these worth getting or Will they loose out to a more modern optic of the same price in low light (700 euro range)

I had that Zeiss myself, it’s pretty damn close to as clear as the most expensive new Zeiss on the market, and known to have been one of the best light gathering scopes ever made. Both scopes are very good/excellent, pick the Zeiss for light, pick the Schmidt if you prefer a lower mounted scope.

Both will walk all over modern mid-price scopes IMHO

 

[Woodlander]

I can understand the simplicity of a fixed mag scope, but sometimes with a variable you can set it to 4x and leave it, or set it to 8x or 12x and leave it, all depending on what you require at the time. I don’t understand the folk who make out they’re somehow complicated and lose a shot fumbling with the mag ring. It’s there if you need it.

 

[Karhumies]

not complicated, just found the old fixed mags to give far more performance for the price when itcomesto that 1 task.had some variables in the 500-1000 range that ended up sold because in daytime i might as well use an old burris and at night fixed zeiss has beaten all of them.

 

[jthyttin]

ah ok, we dont have that for any animal, hence why i ask so mutch of a scope. I dont even go out before the sun sets unless iam birding.

Yes we have, for waterfowl.

The restriction is actually not based on law, since the ministry that set it does not have authority to do so. But they did it anyway, and e.g. national hunter's association couldn't care less. It's kind of "think about the children" issue, you get quite a lot of flak if going against such restriction even when you actually go against the officials overstepping their authority.

 

[Karhumies]

Yes we have, for waterfowl.

The restriction is actually not based on law, since the ministry that set it does not have authority to do so. But they did it anyway, and e.g. national hunter's association couldn't care less. It's kind of "think about the children" issue, you get quite a lot of flak if going against such restriction even when you actually go against the officials overstepping their authority.

ah iam not a waterfowler so i hadnt heard of that.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

if i can find one i should have a look. I am quite particular about my scopes. My friends meopta r1 and r2 variables for instance dont tickle me right. Something unnatural about the colours at night. Zeiss has been a win for me, The old one at least and i do like the one variable i do own (vixen 1-6x24 on my AK) altho that one lags behind the fixed zeiss a little. 2.5-15 sounds like a lot of glass to loose imagine quality on tho? was thinking along the lines of 3-9 or maybe 4-12

One setup that might benefit alot from a variable i suppose is my drilling in .243. Been playing with the idea of putting an illuminated 1-4x24 on it exept i would feel sick to my stomache seeing a modern lpvo on my rather rare drilling.... not to mention getting claws on one that fit my drillings bases without a competent gunsmith. Indeed, i do not have a gunsmith competent in working on drillings or fitting claws.

Safer to get the existing scope on the drilling serviced and stay with it as the claw mounts cost near 1,000€ to be fitted.

 

[Karhumies]

Safer to get the existing scope on the drilling serviced and stay with it as the claw mounts cost near 1,000€ to be fitted.

didnt come with a scope, just bases. There is a smith in helsinki that would charge 500 to fit a pair of rings to it with interchangeable rings based on optilock

 

[Bavarianbrit]

didnt come with a scope, just bases. There is a smith in helsinki that would charge 500 to fit a pair of rings to it with interchangeable rings based on optilock

My old 7x57R drilling I bought had claw mounts too, the smith drove (bashed) the front mount out sideways and fitted an EAW swing off dovetail mount into that dovetail slot, EAW make them oversize so any competent toolmaker can fit/file one to fit centrally to the barrel axis IMO plus he added a new base at the back to clip the "Zeiss inside rail" scope I had requested onto, the changeover cost me around 2,300€ back in 2004 the drilling had cost me 1,100€ with the old Zeiss 6x42 on a 70 degree rail (now that is on my H&H rook rifle .22lr) the drilling is still 100% accurate for the first two shots then the climbing zero begins as is usual with drillings.

 

[JohnCZ]

I had an S&B 8x56 and the 6x42, sold the 8x and kept the 6x42 Klassik (A7). As bright as the S&B 8x56 Klassik was my Zeiss Victory HT 3-12x56 is just as bright, no bigger, has ASV turret and is simply more flexible.

 

[Karhumies]

My old 7x57R drilling I bought had claw mounts too, the smith drove (bashed) the front mount out sideways and fitted an EAW swing off dovetail mount into that dovetail slot, EAW make them oversize so any competent toolmaker can fit/file one to fit centrally to the barrel axis IMO plus he added a new base at the back to clip the "Zeiss inside rail" scope I had requested onto, the changeover cost me around 2,300€ back in 2004 the drilling had cost me 1,100€ with the old Zeiss 6x42 on a 70 degree rail (now that is on my H&H rook rifle .22lr) the drilling is still 100% accurate for the first two shots then the climbing zero begins as is usual with drillings.

I have some claw rings laying around that almost fit, slightly too thick, basically just loose 26mm scope rings so distance lengthwise wouldnt be an issue unless eyerelief bites me. I paid 500 euro for this drilling so i cant really complain.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I have some claw rings laying around that almost fit, slightly too thick, basically just loose 26mm scope rings so distance lengthwise wouldnt be an issue unless eyerelief bites me. I paid 500 euro for this drilling so i cant really complain.

Normal price for them here in Germany, the dealers buy them from the hunters widows for 200 to 250€.

 

[Karhumies]

Normal price for them here in Germany, the dealers buy them from the hunters widows for 200 to 250€.

typically i see them for 1000-3000 with the scopes. couple ancient ones in Oulu for 350-500 that require major servicing and come in unpractical combinations like 16/65 +8x57r wich makes ammo not inpossible but definitely excludes walking into my local gunshop. Mine is 12/70-.243win wich iam told is very rare.

 

[sauer]

Can ypu ask around locally amongst local hunters see of any have models your Interesred in?
Only way I can tell which would be better is for you is to physically look thru and try
Such subjective topic as everyone eyes different
I had meopta r1 3x12x56 and for money thought was fantastic and also non fussy occular eyepiece ...just worked !
I believe the R2 range was higher spec again?

Paul

 

[Karhumies]

Can ypu ask around locally amongst local hunters see of any have models your Interesred in?
Only way I can tell which would be better is for you is to physically look thru and try
Such subjective topic as everyone eyes different
I had meopta r1 3x12x56 and for money thought was fantastic and also non fussy occular eyepiece ...just worked !
I believe the R2 range was higher spec again?

Paul

R2 is the successor in their upper range line, so yea.

just yesterday i looked trough a Zeiss diavari 3-12x56 t* and it looks impressive enough, in daylight it actually looked better than my diatal! So iam going to order one. I found a couple for 500 euro, i need to wait a couple days and i wont be disclosing where until i have snagged one they have several.

i have looked trough an R1 and my zeiss diatal wins for me, the diavari looks nicer than my diatal so i dont think i will be unhappy.

Meanwhile i tried and sold onwards some other fixed powers and decided the old zeiss is still top of the line.