Bergara Barrels seem controversial, any reason why this is please?

[Edinburgh Rifles]

I spoke directly with the Bergara US head of sales last year
We discussed several rifles we returned unfired due to bore “issues”.
Arguably some is just carbon but there are several occlusions, voids and crystalline structure anomalies

His response was an ill advised shift to a cheaper steel provider which they will probably still be recovering from
Almost exclusively 2020-22 products

These are brand new and aside from proof rounds, unfired.


The quality now is much better
But anything when abused will erode/corrode and produce internal anomalies that MAY impact accuracy

The last video is my second hand 308 barrel with several hundred if not thousands through it before a very nice chap rechambered it into 300Norma
I proceeded to put at least another 6-700 rounds through it pushing 200gr ELD-X
It shot 1/2 MOA all the way out to 1000m until I put the 338 back on and got a new 300nm.

It shows that surface quality and anomalies don’t always have a downtange inpact
Some do obviously

Bergara #1


Bergara #2




My 300 Norma 1/2MOA Sako TRG42

“Dirty”


“Clean”

 

[kenbro]

Hi JTO.
I have the plates and screws that were removed from my arm in 1977. They are still rust free and in a plastic tub in my bedside drawer .

Much more friendly atmosphere than in a wet leg methinks!
Ken.

 

[Demetrius]

Someone somewhere once said "The important part of a barrel is the last 6 inches...."

D.

 

[sauer]

That's what my wife says ......

 

[kenbro]

Do Bergara supply some other firearms manufacturers with barrels.
I was told they do.
Ken.

 

[paul o']

Had a few all shot well only one at time of build was found to have a brown rust line but was changed without fuss.

 

[Ronin]

Do Bergara supply some other firearms manufacturers with barrels.
I was told they do.
Ken.

There was a rumour that they supplied the Blaser group (as in Blaser , Mauser , Sauer)

Which , after contacting them and asking was put to bed with a resounding negative

 

[Yorkie]

I spoke directly with the Bergara US head of sales last year
We discussed several rifles we returned unfired due to bore “issues”.
Arguably some is just carbon but there are several occlusions, voids and crystalline structure anomalies

His response was an ill advised shift to a cheaper steel provider which they will probably still be recovering from
Almost exclusively 2020-22 products

These are brand new and aside from proof rounds, unfired.


The quality now is much better
But anything when abused will erode/corrode and produce internal anomalies that MAY impact accuracy

The last video is my second hand 308 barrel with several hundred if not thousands through it before a very nice chap rechambered it into 300Norma
I proceeded to put at least another 6-700 rounds through it pushing 200gr ELD-X
It shot 1/2 MOA all the way out to 1000m until I put the 338 back on and got a new 300nm.

It shows that surface quality and anomalies don’t always have a downtange inpact
Some do obviously

Bergara #1


Bergara #2




My 300 Norma 1/2MOA Sako TRG42

“Dirty”


“Clean”

Hi Ed,
That is a cracking reply to the thread, thank you.
Is the pitting i see on the last video, the clean 300 Norma, down to corrosion or issues with the steel? I notes that it still shoots half minute.

 

[Yorkie]

Possibly they use to be or some models are. The barrels they sell for gunsmithing vs fitted to the production barrels may differ.

The couple i’ve fitted machined ok, the rifling had a slightly weird profile to the lands and were more difficult to clean. I don’t think they’re lapped.

Hi JRF.
I do not think they are hand lapped at any stage. There is a honing process before the buttoning that allegedly removes the radial machining marks.

I have seen down new Savage rifle barrels and they have shocking tooling marks. Still seem to shoot ok though.

Shilen, Lilja etc all hand lap and then air gauge. I guess that is where Bergara can save money.

I have 4 custom barrels on my guns. Krieger which is cut and Lilja, Shilen and Truflite that are all button.

My Lilja is a very accurate. It is a 30-06 and can shoot thumbnail size groups monotonously.

Shilen is also top notch. .22BR

Truflite is a bit of an unknown quantity as i have done very little development yet. 25-06.


Krieger is exceptional, although i did struggle with the 'breaking in process'. It coppered heavily for a few inches at the muzzle.

 

[sauer]

Truflite ... my brother had 2x both on his
.22-250 One after other both done by
Grants Taylor and both were absolutely laser beam accurate unfussy and just worked !
His 3rd barrel went kreiger as couldn't get truflite again

I personally haven't heard a bad thing about Trueflite


I had a b14hmr .308 and first shooting in load produced this

Paul

 

[JTO]

Much more friendly atmosphere than in a wet leg methinks!
Ken.

But with no oxygen to aid rusting perhaps.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Hi Ed,
That is a cracking reply to the thread, thank you.
Is the pitting i see on the last video, the clean 300 Norma, down to corrosion or issues with the steel? I notes that it still shoots half minute.

Misuse and poor cleaning regime most likely
The fire cracking extends several inches into the bore effectively removing a lot of the rifling

 

[dropmdead]

I've not used a Bergara recently, but some years ago.
Wasn't rusty by any means all things given it was used for fox, deer and bench rest competitors.
Similarly I've used brux, bartlein, border (cut and button), LW all for similar purposes.

Maybe I got lucky , (if it's a "rubbish" barrel brand) but it certainly kept up with everything else and performed accuracy wise (ultimately the most important thing over everything else including finish, cost, rust, easy cleaning)

 

[Yorkie]

Truflite ... my brother had 2x both on his
.22-250 One after other both done by
Grants Taylor and both were absolutely laser beam accurate unfussy and just worked !
His 3rd barrel went kreiger as couldn't get truflite again

I personally haven't heard a bad thing about Trueflite


I had a b14hmr .308 and first shooting in load produced this

Paul

Hi Sauer.
Thanks for your experiences with the Truflite. I really do need to spend some time on load development. It shoots Sako factory fine but i prefer to handload.

My Barrel was sourced from Fox Firearms if memory serves. Just had a look at Truflite's site and they list no UK importer now.

 

[Ronin]

Tru flight are very good barrels

 

[Yorkie]

Tru flight are very good barrels

Thanks, that is reassuring.
As an experienced stalker, target shooter and Riflesmith, what is your personal choice, button or cut?

 

[golspie15]

Hi.
It seems that among all the custom Barrel makers, there tends to be some negative opinion of the Bergara blanks. I do not have a Bergara barrel so do not have a dog in the fight, just curious as to why the 'hate', for want of a better word.

When they were first produced they seemed impressive. Ed Shilen was technical consultant, the Guy's reputation stands for itself, the Bergara barrels were made on new machinery and used the impressive, to me anyway as a layman, barrel honing machinery. This i suspect was to remove the machining marks that you see in 'budget' button rifled barrels like Savage.

On the surface, and to a layman like myself, i can't see why a Bergara does not seem to be accepted quality wise the same as say a Shilen.

Is their barrel steel not as good as it should be? Is the manufacturing process flawed in some way?

Would the skilled smiths that we are lucky to have on the forum care to offer an opinion?

Like i said, i do not have a Bergara barrel nor do i have a Bergara rifle. I have no particular opinion either way.

Anyone's thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

I have a Bergara HMR Pro 6.5CM - great rifle.
However, I am also an RFD re-barreling rifles as required by my customers. I have rebarrelled many rifles using various quality aftermarket barrels without a problem. I am currently re-barreling a Sako action with an aftermarket Bergara barrel. I can machine the external barrel tenon with a very good finish. However, when it comes to chambering the Bergara barrel, I cannot achieve acceptable finish to pass proof. It seems that the core steel around the bore is too hard for my professionally re-ground reamer to cut cleanly. I will never buy another aftermarket Bergara barrel

 

[scotch_egg]

Lothar Walther are button and I have to say my favourite barrels for cost and hard wearing. Dave Wilde at Valkyrie rifles used to hate them for being too hard and didn’t like how they machine, but this stance changed after he adjusted how he worked the steel. They aren’t as expensive at the likes of Bartlein or Kreiger of which I have on a couple of rifles with them. I don’t see an accuracy different between them and the lothar walther.

The last lothar walther barrel I had fitted was by @Ronin who has now done 5 lothar walther barrels for me. If I recall correctly the barrel was £370 with shipping and tax. Probably £100 more than a Bergara and worth every penny for piece of mind.

Just remember the cost of machining the barrel to fit the action will be the same price no matter who makes the barrel.

As for rust, does anyone remember early Blaser R93 barrels. They would externally rust in front of your eyes sat in a high seat

 

[Ronin]

Lothar Walther are button and I have to say my favourite barrels for cost and hard wearing. Dave Wilde at Valkyrie rifles used to hate them for being too hard and didn’t like how they machine, but this stance changed after he adjusted how he worked the steel. They aren’t as expensive at the likes of Bartlein or Kreiger of which I have on a couple of rifles with them. I don’t see an accuracy different between them and the lothar walther.

The last lothar walther barrel I had fitted was by @Ronin who has now done 5 lothar walther barrels for me. If I recall correctly the barrel was £370 with shipping and tax. Probably £100 more than a Bergara and worth every penny for piece of mind.

Just remember the cost of machining the barrel to fit the action will be the same price no matter who makes the barrel.

As for rust, does anyone remember early Blaser R93 barrels. They would externally rust in front of your eyes sat in a high seat

Lothar still produce excellent barrels - their steel (both CM and Stainless) is harder than most other barrel manufacturers steel and yes you do need to alter machining practices to avoid dulling your tooling in my case I use CBN insert tooling which manages any steel but is very expensive

Their barrels shoot very well and I’ve seen end user groups matching some of the best match rifles using high end USA brands

Price point has increased from them - you now pay an export fee thanks to brexit so your looking at mid 400 with shipping and vat addition when it enters this fine island

 

[Ronin]

Thanks, that is reassuring.
As an experienced stalker, target shooter and Riflesmith, what is your personal choice, button or cut?

Personal choice (for my own rifles) every time would be Cut Rifled from any quality manufacturer

Either UK (GB Barrels , Phoenix, or US Brux, Bartlein, Kreiger)

Second choice would be button rifled from Lothar, Pac Nor, Broughton etc

Accuracy differences - I’ve not noticed any I can speak of but there is less stress imparted into the steel using the cut rifling method and that is the only reason I make that choice for my own rifles