No BASC council meeting minutes are on the BASC website for all to read, however any discussion on lead is in confidence.
EU ban on lead ammunition for airguns, shotguns and rifles
- Thread starter Conor O'Gorman
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No BASC council meeting minutes are on the BASC website for all to read, however any discussion on lead is in confidence.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
If you look through the minutes many items are marked confidential which means that BASC Council does not want those details in the public domain. If you disagree with this approach perhaps contact your Council (elected by BASC members) and raise your concerns. Use the following contact form and choose 'BASC Council' from the drop down menu.No BASC council meeting minutes are on the BASC website for all to read, however any discussion on lead is in confidence.
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If you need information that cannot be found in our advice hub, you can get in touch by phone or by filling in an online form.
basc.org.uk
And I am sure they will reveal allIf you look through the minutes many items are marked confidential which means that BASC Council does not want those details in the public domain. If you disagree with this approach perhaps contact your Council (elected by BASC members) and raise your concerns. Use the following contact form and choose 'BASC Council' from the drop down menu.
Contact Us
If you need information that cannot be found in our advice hub, you can get in touch by phone or by filling in an online form.
I am sure some commercially sensitive information you would not want to make public knowledge however would rather think you would be happy to share the progress on the voluntary transition and success with your negotiations with the HSE with the public via the Council minutes. But no, not one word is disclosed.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Insurprising. They they gave Mark Avery's chum John Swift a life membership following his anti lead shot campaign on the lead advisory group, Avery's blog and most likely elsewhere? Swift is of course entitled to his personal opinion but that has no place when he has been appointed as a representative of the shooting community as a whole.No BASC council meeting minutes are on the BASC website for all to read, however any discussion on lead is in confidence.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
Now that you are back after hiding from the question...let's try again...do you believe there is evidence of birds ingesting lead shot in the wild within wetlands?
Spear Chucker
Well-Known Member
Sadly our government is set on aligning us with EU legislation. We are stuffed. It is all part of "no, you can't have Brexit" from our political establishment. We need a revolution. It is the only way.
Spear Chucker
Well-Known Member
There probably is evidence if them ingesting it. So far the evidence conclusively proving its degradation in their gut and poisoning birds is lacking.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
That's not true. This is classic disinformation and well you know it.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
Are you going to contact BASC Council?And I am sure they will reveal all
I am sure some commercially sensitive information you would not want to make public knowledge however would rather think you would be happy to share the progress on the voluntary transition and success with your negotiations with the HSE with the public via the Council minutes. But no, not one word is disclosed.
Spear Chucker
Well-Known Member
Sorry Conor, you are wrong. You are flogging the disinformation.
Same rubbish to sell for a rubbish organisation that has forgotten why it was founded. It is surprising how many are not buying your line.
10 out of 10 for dedication. It is a shame it is for an organisation with a bent agenda.
The key point is that there is no good alternative to lead and the non lead alternatives are not convincing anyone as a humane killer. So, if we are worried about ethics, you'd be better off advocating the banning of shooting sports.
fear not you will not need cartridges for game shooting regardless of them being lead or anything else.
Grouse shooting first.
markavery.info
Grouse shooting first.
A letter to my MP, Lee Barron – Mark Avery
markavery.info
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
That is not true and well you know it. When lead shot is eaten by birds mistaking it for seed or grit then that lead shot gets eroded in the gizzard and is metabolised into toxic lead salts that are absorbed into blood and later deposited in the kidneys, liver, bones etc. with resulting ill effects. A single pellet may kill some birds, for others it's a few pellets. The lethal and sub-lethal effects vary from species to species. Here is just one of many studies since the 1960s exploring the clinical pathway.
Lead toxicity in captive and wild Mallards (Anas platyrhynchos) in Spain (2010)
Forty captive Mallards (Anas platyrhynchos), of both sexes, were separated into five groups and dosed with lead shot via oral intubation; one group was used as a control. Lead dosage differed in terms of shot number and size, as well as administration time. One hundred and thirty-five wild mallards were trapped between 1998 and 2001 in the Boada and Nava lagoons near the Canal de Castilla, in the Spanish province of Palencia. Radiologic techniques (ventrodorsal and lateral views) were used to detect lead shot in the gizzard and to determine degradation in dosed birds over time. Heparinized blood samples were taken from wild and captive mallards and blood lead levels were determined using anodic stripping voltammetry with a dropping mercury electrode. Clinical signs, injuries, and body weight were recorded. In approximately 90% of the experimentally dosed mallards, administered shot stayed in their gizzard until it degraded; this took approximately 30 days. Peak lead levels in blood were observed between days 10 and 20, and 10 days following a repeat dosage; males were more sensitive than females to a repeat dosage. During the experimental phase, 34% of birds died, and those that survived had varying degrees of anorexia, lethargy, and a decreased response to external stimulus. Of 135 tested wild mallards, 41% had a blood lead concentration higher than 0.200 microg/g. Lead shot was found embedded in 3.6% of the wild birds and 1.2% had a lead shot pellet in their gizzard.
Lead toxicity in captive and wild Mallards (Anas platyrhynchos) in Spain - PubMed
Forty captive Mallards (Anas platyrhynchos), of both sexes, were separated into five groups and dosed with lead shot via oral intubation; one group was used as a control. Lead dosage differed in terms of shot number and size, as well as administration time. One hundred and thirty-five wild...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Spear Chucker
Well-Known Member
Yup. There you go. Back to snares and catapults in the dark, just like our country cousins.fear not you will not need cartridges for game shooting regardless of them being lead or anything else.
Grouse shooting first.
A letter to my MP, Lee Barron – Mark Avery
View attachment 423102
Spear Chucker
Well-Known Member
Zzzzzzz.....That is not true and well you know it. When lead shot is eaten by birds mistaking it for seed or grit then that lead shot gets eroded in the gizzard and is metabolised into toxic lead salts that are absorbed into blood and later deposited in the kidneys, liver, bones etc. with resulting ill effects. A single pellet may kill some birds, for others it's a few pellets. The lethal and sub-lethal effects vary from species to species. Here is just one of many studies since the 1960s exploring the clinical pathway.
Lead toxicity in captive and wild Mallards (Anas platyrhynchos) in Spain (2010)
Forty captive Mallards (Anas platyrhynchos), of both sexes, were separated into five groups and dosed with lead shot via oral intubation; one group was used as a control. Lead dosage differed in terms of shot number and size, as well as administration time. One hundred and thirty-five wild mallards were trapped between 1998 and 2001 in the Boada and Nava lagoons near the Canal de Castilla, in the Spanish province of Palencia. Radiologic techniques (ventrodorsal and lateral views) were used to detect lead shot in the gizzard and to determine degradation in dosed birds over time. Heparinized blood samples were taken from wild and captive mallards and blood lead levels were determined using anodic stripping voltammetry with a dropping mercury electrode. Clinical signs, injuries, and body weight were recorded. In approximately 90% of the experimentally dosed mallards, administered shot stayed in their gizzard until it degraded; this took approximately 30 days. Peak lead levels in blood were observed between days 10 and 20, and 10 days following a repeat dosage; males were more sensitive than females to a repeat dosage. During the experimental phase, 34% of birds died, and those that survived had varying degrees of anorexia, lethargy, and a decreased response to external stimulus. Of 135 tested wild mallards, 41% had a blood lead concentration higher than 0.200 microg/g. Lead shot was found embedded in 3.6% of the wild birds and 1.2% had a lead shot pellet in their gizzard.
Lead toxicity in captive and wild Mallards (Anas platyrhynchos) in Spain - PubMed
Forty captive Mallards (Anas platyrhynchos), of both sexes, were separated into five groups and dosed with lead shot via oral intubation; one group was used as a control. Lead dosage differed in terms of shot number and size, as well as administration time. One hundred and thirty-five wild...
I don’t know of any 2 inch chambered damascus barrelled guns. As my own Damascus barrelled gun is nitroproofed and has been renitroproofed it is suitable for those modern cartridges it has passed proof for. You don’t seem very familiar with old classic shotguns perhaps looking up some of the to destruction tests on damascus barrelled guns detailed in the double gun journals would have you better informed. You’ve lost me with the tailored ammunition and the 38 Gm magnum round story.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
That was a quick reply within less than a minute, and that is clearly evidence of an agenda of disinformation.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
I don't agree that is the topic of conversation , try to change the subject as much as you like with leading questions but I'm having none of it.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
BASC has been encouraging people to contact their MPs on this for some time. It is interesting that you raise this petition here whilst not having not commented here:fear not you will not need cartridges for game shooting regardless of them being lead or anything else.
Grouse shooting first.
A letter to my MP, Lee Barron – Mark Avery
View attachment 423102
Perhaps you missed the statement denying any such consultation by representatives of the major cartridge manufacturers , the one which you were relying on to be explained by the memoirs of some random unknown. If I remember correctly you were asked to reveal the identies of those cartridge manufacturers that you maintained were consulted while you were employed by BASC.You declined to provide such information
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
Nope, you brought this up yourself earlier in the thread, so let's ask again....do you believe there is evidence of birds ingesting lead shot in the wild within wetlands?
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