Softer-shooting than .308?

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nun_hunter said:
How fast the bullet accelerates has a big impact on recoil. A bullet of the same weight but a larger diameter is easier to accelerate in a given distance compared to a longer thinner bucket of the same weight. Usually a longer bullet (same weight but smaller diameter) will utilise a slower powder and lo ger barrel to achieve the same velocity meaning less felt recoil.
Click to expand...
Happy to be proved wrong by any physics teachers on here but I dont think your right.
I did do physics A Level , got an A ;) and newtons laws of motion are key.
P=MV
momentum = mass x velocity. so if both bullets weigh the same and are going the same speed terminally then the momentum/ recoil is the same

the only think that can sway this is the fact it is not happening in a vacuum so BC will come into effect but not be a compounding factor??

Ultimatley the calibre doesnt really matter so much , its all about keeping rifle weight up as much as possible and bullet weight down. Not worth getting too technical about it :rofl:
 
nick.308 said:
Happy to be proved wrong by any physics teachers on here but I dont think your right.
I did do physics A Level , got an A ;) and newtons laws of motion are key.
P=MV
momentum = mass x velocity. so if both bullets weigh the same and are going the same speed terminally then the momentum/ recoil is the same

the only think that can sway this is the fact it is not happening in a vacuum so BC will come into effect but not be a compounding factor??

Ultimatley the calibre doesnt really matter so much , its all about keeping rifle weight up as much as possible and bullet weight down. Not worth getting too technical about it :rofl:
Click to expand...
Terminal velocity could be the same and energy would be the same but the recoil (and therefore energy transfer) you feel as the person feeling the trigger would differ. Much in the same way that if you were accelerated to 100mph over 2m Vs 200m you'd feel the effects very differently.
 
nun_hunter said:
Terminal velocity could be the same and energy would be the same but the recoil (and therefore energy transfer) you feel as the person feeling the trigger would differ. Much in the same way that if you were accelerated to 100mph over 2m Vs 200m you'd feel the effects very differently.
Click to expand...
So P=E/t aplies for felt recoil?
 
nun_hunter said:
Terminal velocity could be the same and energy would be the same but the recoil (and therefore energy transfer) you feel as the person feeling the trigger would differ. Much in the same way that if you were accelerated to 100mph over 2m Vs 200m you'd feel the effects very differently
Click to expand...

F=ma
force =mass x acceleration
you will have some logic but Im leaving it there :lol:
 
Samantha75 said:
Due to an injury from a car accident, I would like to reduce recoil. I currently use a .308 with a muzzle brake. I'm looking for a softer-shooting caliber suitable for general hunting.

In the Netherlands, the legal minimum caliber for hunting anything bigger than roe deer is 6.5 mm.
I've read mixed reviews about the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Who can give me advice about low-recoil hunting caliber(s)?
Click to expand...
You might consider a pad from PAST that is worn on the body or a similar item from another maker, I use one off the bench or prolonged shooting with a steel butt plate and they truly reduce the pain.
 
btw I shoot .308 and 6.5 creedmoor with 150gr and 147gr respectivley both with heavy barrel Remington 700 with 13-27" harris bipods, moderators and there is no noticeable recoil difference.
I do shoot my .308 with 110 vmax and the recoil is low. I havnt shot anything out of my 6.5 less than 147gr so cant comment on lighter loads.
I do carry heavy rifles stalking because I prefer them but I do appreciate lugging a heavy rifle around isn't easy.

you could get some form of "removable" weight attached to your rifle so you can get someone else to carry the weight and just attach it when you want to shoot? and I bet it would make a big difference?
 
There's no formula for felt recoil. And it doesn't have direct relationship to physical effects on your body. I'd just get the momentum of the bullet&powder combo down (yes exiting powder gases form a significant amount of recoil), rifle weight up within comfort (balance affects comfort a lot) and add mercury recoil reducer(s) if possible and allowed.

Or actually I'd try to get comprehensive medical explanation what should be avoided, but given the info in this thread I'd do the above.

(I've let myself be told that peak acceleration of the rifle is proportional to the maximum pressure and "size of piston" i.e. bore cross-sectional area; but I also think that this is lost in noise when you compare the actual impact the rifle has on your body)

Companies like Hornady and Barnes produce reduced loads in 308, sadly couldn't find them in NL (online search) and also they're both just below the required 2200J limit @100m. Home loading would resolve the situation as much as it can be resolved ammunition wise. Just get some 125gr proven bullets like Nosler Accubond, driven at velocity that just makes the limit (seems to be 830m/s at muzzle). You cannot cut the recoil more by going 6.5mm, but you can change the terminal ballistics.
 
jthyttin said:
There's no formula for felt recoil. And it doesn't have direct relationship to physical effects on your body. I'd just get the momentum of the bullet&powder combo down (yes exiting powder gases form a significant amount of recoil), rifle weight up within comfort (balance affects comfort a lot) and add mercury recoil reducer(s) if possible and allowed.

Or actually I'd try to get comprehensive medical explanation what should be avoided, but given the info in this thread I'd do the above.

(I've let myself be told that peak acceleration of the rifle is proportional to the maximum pressure and "size of piston" i.e. bore cross-sectional area; but I also think that this is lost in noise when you compare the actual impact the rifle has on your body)

Companies like Hornady and Barnes produce reduced loads in 308, sadly couldn't find them in NL (online search) and also they're both just below the required 2200J limit @100m. Home loading would resolve the situation as much as it can be resolved ammunition wise. Just get some 125gr proven bullets like Nosler Accubond, driven at velocity that just makes the limit (seems to be 830m/s at muzzle). You cannot cut the recoil more by going 6.5mm, but you can change the terminal ballistics.
Click to expand...
Has anyone compared the Benelli Lupo for recoil vs other rifles? I use Benelli shotguns and the recoil reduction system is great - really works. The Lupo uses the same so I’m assuming similar improvement but haven’t tried it. Backfire in You Tube fits a recoil reducing pad to his hard-hitters and seems to make a difference. I don’t notice recoil when I’m hunting and wear thick clothing on the bench, so it’s just part of shooting. I did get and enjoy 6.5x55 for the sight picture and soft recoil.
 
Samantha75 said:
When hunting, I use quad sticks. That works fine.
Click to expand...
When using quad sticks, a very common thing to do, is to hold the rifle too lightly in the shoulder pocket, because it is so stable on the sticks it feels that by hard shouldering it, you actually create more instability via heart beat, body movement, etc. and whilst this is actually often quite true, the problem
Is by not properly shouldering the rifle on quad sticks, it ‘free recoils’ into your shoulder, giving you a much harder ‘whack’ than you ‘should’.

I’ve done it, it’s easily done. But I also agree, try and get a lighter bullet, a top quality muzzle brake, and have mercury tubes fitted, if this is possible on your stock. Upgrading to carbon fibre should reduce both carry weight and recoil as well, and lighten your bank account too 😂

And lastly, can posters please stop posting all maths equations immediately! 😜
 
Mercury is not an option, because it causes issues when traveling. Blaser make a kickstop which is made for the gun, which we will give a try.
 
Samantha75 said:
Due to an injury from a car accident, I would like to reduce recoil. I currently use a .308 with a muzzle brake. I'm looking for a softer-shooting caliber suitable for general hunting.

In the Netherlands, the legal minimum caliber for hunting anything bigger than roe deer is 6.5 mm.
I've read mixed reviews about the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Who can give me advice about low-recoil hunting caliber(s)?
Click to expand...

Hi

I haven't waded through this whole thread so someone else might have suggested it, but what about 6BR? Light recoil, extremely accurate, barrel lasts forever (if that's a concern to you). You would probably need to reload though.
 
nick.308 said:
Happy to be proved wrong by any physics teachers on here but I dont think your right.
I did do physics A Level , got an A ;) and newtons laws of motion are key.
P=MV
momentum = mass x velocity. so if both bullets weigh the same and are going the same speed terminally then the momentum/ recoil is the same

the only think that can sway this is the fact it is not happening in a vacuum so BC will come into effect but not be a compounding factor??

Ultimatley the calibre doesnt really matter so much , its all about keeping rifle weight up as much as possible and bullet weight down. Not worth getting too technical about it :rofl:
Click to expand...
Its the energy at 100m so a 140gr 6,5 with high BC can start slower than a 140gr .308 with low BC.
 
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