Lead ammunition restrictions - government announcement

[Chris Richardson]

Almost totally not as much as you. Statistically insignificant amounts. But regularly over a long period of time. In a syndicate where everyone is working through this. We have collectively found that if the cartridges make any difference, they are insignificant compared to how well people shoot and how many opportunities we can create. And based on that we'd rather be on the side of the angels.

Well I never said how much I do so you never know but sorry “ on the side of the angels “??? Who exactly are the “ angels “

 

[Tim.243]

Almost totally not as much as you. Statistically insignificant amounts. But regularly over a long period of time. In a syndicate where everyone is working through this. We have collectively found that if the cartridges make any difference, they are insignificant compared to how well people shoot and how many opportunities we can create. And based on that we'd rather be on the side of the angels.

When was you last on a Marsh flighting teal widgeon?

 

[Pine Marten]

When was you last on a Marsh flighting teal widgeon?

2016 I think. With Alan Jarrett.

 

[jall55]

i have , they don't work as well

i even patterned some and they were not as good as traditional lead loads

if steel was as good or as cheap or as effective we would have transitioned without having to be forced , much like EV's but unlike cars when you are taking a life you owe it the quickest and cleanest death you can achieve and to substitute what has been used for ages as being the most effective with something worse how do you justify that ? unless the true end goal isn't just the removal of lead..........

I suppose the argument would be because yes you want to kill that with the quickest cleanest death but you dont want any other animal / bird to suffer a lingering death by ingestion ? Im like you not totally convinced lead poisoning happens - certainly not in the numbers claimed anyway

 

[jall55]

how much are you shooting exactly ? ive tried steel doesnt perform nearly as well as lead

Many many many others find it does

 

[Chris Richardson]

Many many many others find it does

bully for them however ive met a lot of folks who say like myself steel isnt as good , now they could be lying but i doubt it

 

[Tim.243]

2016 I think. With Alan Jarrett.

Jarrett
What about on your own with out a guide?

 

[jall55]

bully for them however ive met a lot of folks who say like myself steel isnt as good , now they could be lying but i doubt it

As i have said i really have no dog in the fight - but on our shoot when we transitioned to steel last year overall our ratio of shots to kills was ever so slightly better - this is based on a core of the same chaps shooting over the same 20/30 years - many getting older and slower - real young lads and now ladies coming into the shoot - On the same land with more challenging birds this last 5 years as land has been acquired

I have also been using them in the hide - rat and squirrel shooting and again can honestly say i have not noticed any real issue - despite the odd howler of a day - but we all have those anyway

 

[jall55]

Jarrett
What about on your own with out a guide?

Is it time for your sleep again Tim ?

Why do you feel the need to constantly belittle ? Its a shame as you have some real knowledge and passion

 

[Chris Richardson]

As i have said i really have no dog in the fight - but on our shoot when we transitioned to steel last year overall our ratio of shots to kills was ever so slightly better - this is based on a core of the same chaps shooting over the same 20/30 years - many getting older and slower - real young lads and now ladies coming into the shoot - On the same land with more challenging birds this last 5 years as land has been acquired

I have also been using them in the hide - rat and squirrel shooting and again can honestly say i have not noticed any real issue - despite the odd howler of a day - but we all have those anyway

on the syndicate i reckon well probably keep going till we cant get lead anymore then who knows same on my own little shoot , aye we all have dyas like that

 

[Pine Marten]

Jarrett
What about on your own with out a guide?

He wasn't guiding. We just went together. Same club. Look it doesn't matter, on that day we were both using steel and both killed some wildfowl successfully. Also, given you're a proper coastal wildfowler, you've presumably not used lead for decades so what's your experience?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I did read the GWCT statement and it reads as one would expect in favour of the lead ban, especially if part funded by BASC hence my question, which looks to have touch a nerve?

Yes, you have touched a nerve, my patience is coming to an end with these ridiculous comments.

 

[jall55]

on the syndicate i reckon well probably keep going till we cant get lead anymore then who knows same on my own little shoot , aye we all have dyas like that

All i would say - is maybe try it and you MAY find it suits you

I was honestly exactly the same - but BASC came to our shoot and most of the guys tried steel on clays - i wouldnt as i didnt want to swap - honestly

They then came again and again and i did try and i watched lads smashing clays - the same as with lead - We used the same trap and tried both

I then tried a few - being honest because they were free and left from the demo day on a few squirrels and again found no issues

I then bought some loads to try on pigeon - then corvid - then pheasant and all went through my 40 year old grade 1 £300 Miroku - with three quarter and quarter choke

What i did find was some of the wads in some of the loads we had tried did not breakdown to my satisfaction but the Eley ones do and they work

 

[Ruger#1]

You’re doing a great job, congratulations.
Any chance of you answering my question now?
Or ever?

No ,not at all i don’t answer irrelevant questions asked with the sole purpose of deflecting away from my points which incidentally you fail to acknowledge as it fails to reinforce your blinkered opinion.
Keep drinking the BASC kool -aid,organisations need followers like yourself the compliant non questioning trusting type. Fingers crossed that the next obstacle doesn’t see a similar performance or you’ll be in the market for a catapult before you know it.

 

[Liveonce]

Yes, you have touched a nerve, my patience is coming to an end with these ridiculous comments.

So still no reply to my question, as others have said you are very good at avoiding answering direct questions.

So I will take it as a yes BASC did fund the GWCT - BASC awarded the GWCT £300,000

Just possibly BASC would get more respect by being honest and just simply stating it is in favour of a total lead shot ban regardless of the consequences for all shooting activities.

 

[Pine Marten]

So still no reply to my question, as others have said you are very good at avoiding answering direct questions.

So I will take it as a yes BASC did fund the GWCT - BASC awarded the GWCT £300,000

I find it amazing (and impressive) that Connor O'Gorman keeps engaging with this forum.

 

[Tim.243]

He wasn't guiding. We just went together. Same club. Look it doesn't matter, on that day we were both using steel and both killed some wildfowl successfully. Also, given you're a proper coastal wildfowler, you've presumably not used lead for decades so what's your experience?

I use steel on the Marsh (as you must) decoy duck into a sensible range and let the high birds go as it runs out of energy quicker than people think at distance. Fast over a short distance, Last flt the one in the video was on the 20th with 12 teal.

As for the debate "the voice of shooting" lost it's voice and took the wages.

 

[Chris Richardson]

All i would say - is maybe try it and you MAY find it suits you

I was honestly exactly the same - but BASC came to our shoot and most of the guys tried steel on clays - i wouldnt as i didnt want to swap - honestly

They then came again and again and i did try and i watched lads smashing clays - the same as with lead - We used the same trap and tried both

I then tried a few - being honest because they were free and left from the demo day on a few squirrels and again found no issues

I then bought some loads to try on pigeon - then corvid - then pheasant and all went through my 40 year old grade 1 £300 Miroku - with three quarter and quarter choke

What i did find was some of the wads in some of the loads we had tried did not breakdown to my satisfaction but the Eley ones do and they work

ive used it wildfowling , ive tried it on driven partridge I dont find it as effective as lead , that being said its looking like ill have to use it at some point , the rifle side bothers me more than anything as im shooting a lot of deer

 

[enfieldspares]

2016 I think. With Alan Jarrett.

I don't use steel and won't use steel until the bitter end. That's my position. But I can also say this I did some beating for two or three years on the shoot that P Marten is a member of and so for a year or so has my son. I can attest that the duck they do shoot on their usual duck drive are tall birds indeed and not at all easy shots. Those that the guns manage to hit...the shoot is throughout that period all non-lead and that mainly if not exclusively steel...either come down dead or are dead from the fall when picked.

 

[jall55]

So still no reply to my question, as others have said you are very good at avoiding answering direct questions.

So I will take it as a yes BASC did fund the GWCT - BASC awarded the GWCT £300,000

Just possibly BASC would get more respect by being honest and just simply stating it is in favour of a total lead shot ban regardless of the consequences for all shooting activities.

I dont think it was a secret about the grant tbh