Interesting open letter concerning the lead shot/ammunition ban

[Conor O'Gorman]

No, I'm not sure if you've realised but people tend to be two faced and don't often air their concerns as most people don't like confrontation. I on the other hand, enjoy confrontation. I am certainly not "fixated" on BASC, the only reason i comment is to bite back at Heym and yourself whenever you post crap. Which unfortunately for you pair (more so Heym) is quite common.

I was behind BASC. Until they cocked up. So I cancelled. Easy as that.
You've had a well respected member of this community tell you something who's got no and to grind in this and yet you still refuse to believe it. It's borderline funny how delusional you're becoming. The answers are in front of you, the pages and pages of criticism against BASC with a number not really interested any longer in what happens. They've aired opinion loud and clear yet you still dont see it?

Come on Conor, stop kidding yourself. We get you work for BASC but its clear not everyone aligns with their views and you have to acknowledge that

You are clearly fixated on BASC and as regards your assertion of "pages and pages of criticism against BASC" do you acknowledge that is from less than a dozen of over 30,000 forum members on this forum?

 

[hendrix's rifle]

You are clearly fixated on BASC and as regards your assertion of "pages and pages of criticism against BASC" do you acknowledge that is from less than a dozen of over 30,000 forum members on this forum?

Out of how many activities members? Because there ain't 30k posting on even a semi regular basis

 

[Tim.243]

Not sure how you went from a few people moaning about BASC on forums to "hundreds and thousands of people". That is certainly not my experience and feedback from members that goes back 23 years. That is not the experience of my colleagues either. This forum has over 30,000 members and less than a dozen people with axes to grind about BASC. That's a fact. This is what BASC is about:

I see you swerved post 435....!

 

[enfieldspares]

I was brought up on a hammer 20 bore and you don't load a hammer gun with the hammer back

Hammer guns.

There's now a loss of the link between those who actually used them (as that is only what the had) and those who see one, buy it, and then take it out.

Here's how I was "taught" to unload by someone who only ever used a hammer gun.

1) When after you had loaded it, closed it, gone to "high port" and cocked it and then the birds didn't come you unloaded it by opening it with the hammers still cocked. And then when the gun was open you lowered the hammers.

2) You could then, after 1), either stand on your peg like that - gun open, hammers down, cartridges in the breech. And if the birds started to come you closed it, stood ready at what would be called "high port" and then cocked the hammers and waited for the birds to present the chance of a shot.

3) If they didn't then you repeated 1).

It is 1) that many now don't do. But resort to the very unsafe practice of lowering the hammer (which has to be done by pulling the trigger) with the hammer "spur" kept supposedly under the control of the thumb.

Below at 4:25 or so onwards is how NOT to do it.

All well and good until you get a cold day or a wet day and the "spur" escapes from the thumb and the hammer then falls. And if you "try before you buy" and you cannot fully operate the top lever to open the gun while both hammers are fully cocked? Then pass it by. Because it is an inferior, and flawed, design.

 

[Liveonce]

If the orgs were so certain only the few on SD are unhappy with BASCs handling of lead why did they not ask all the membership prior to starting the voluntary transition? And why was the recent fieldssports TV channel
survey so against the ban.

Conor you need to get out of the office, out of the bubble you live it, go to a few small clay grounds
ask the participants how they see the situation, or the pigeon shooters looking to pay £400 plus for cartridges.

not that conor will read this as I am on his ignore list, so will PM him.

 

[BryanDC]

oh life without lead has been really good

In Denmark, plastic shotgun wads are a significant source of pollution in marine and other ecosystems, with an estimated 30 tons discarded annually. These wads, often found on beaches, contribute to the overall plastic litter problem. Studies have shown that hunting activities, particularly in coastal areas, are a major contributor to this pollution.

Yes life has been good, really good.
The things that Thorkild says are pretty much how it is. It really isn't something hunters talk about. There may be one or two old Luddites that still wish they could use lead but I really haven't come across any in the last 10 years. My own experience with steel is that it works just as well as lead as long as you use the right cartridge.

Could you find the information that 30000kg of plastic wads are discarded each year. I suspect that also includes clay shooting and most ranges have ways of collecting wads.
Statistics for 23/24 show that about 1.6 million birds and mammals were shot here. As a wad weighs about 1-1.5 grams you are talking about 20-30 million cartridges. So the numbers don't add up if they don't include clay pigeon shooting.
Factor in that many have gone over to bio wads at least for hunting, so again the numbers don't add up.

So again, yes life is good really good.

 

[Liveonce]

Yes life has been good, really good.
The things that Thorkild says are pretty much how it is. It really isn't something hunters talk about. There may be one or two old Luddites that still wish they could use lead but I really haven't come across any in the last 10 years. My own experience with steel is that it works just as well as lead as long as you use the right cartridge.

Could you find the information that 30000kg of plastic wads are discarded each year. I suspect that also includes clay shooting and most ranges have ways of collecting wads.
Statistics for 23/24 show that about 1.6 million birds and mammals were shot here. As a wad weighs about 1-1.5 grams you are talking about 20-30 million cartridges. So the numbers don't add up if they don't include clay pigeon shooting.
Factor in that many have gone over to bio wads at least for hunting, so again the numbers don't add up.

So again, yes life is good really good.

it takes but two minutes on google search to find what I posted re wads, another quick google.

Plastic litter from shotgun ammunition on Danish coastlines – Amounts and provenance

Plastic litter in the marine environment is a major global issue. Discarded plastic shotgun ammunition shells and discharged wads are an unwelcome add…

www.sciencedirect.com

Why do you think the U.K. voluntary transition included a move away from single use plastic wads to biodegradable?
because it is untenable to swap lead pollution for that of plastic and the orgs know that.

Then your 35m limit on the range you shoot at, and no mention of .410 or 28ga or historic firearms.

We do not all shoot 12gauge.

 

[Liveonce]

Yes life has been good, really good.
The things that Thorkild says are pretty much how it is. It really isn't something hunters talk about. There may be one or two old Luddites that still wish they could use lead but I really haven't come across any in the last 10 years. My own experience with steel is that it works just as well as lead as long as you use the right cartridge.

Could you find the information that 30000kg of plastic wads are discarded each year. I suspect that also includes clay shooting and most ranges have ways of collecting wads.
Statistics for 23/24 show that about 1.6 million birds and mammals were shot here. As a wad weighs about 1-1.5 grams you are talking about 20-30 million cartridges. So the numbers don't add up if they don't include clay pigeon shooting.
Factor in that many have gone over to bio wads at least for hunting, so again the numbers don't add up.

So again, yes life is good really good.

Any truth in this from 2022

Hi xxxxxxxxxx
The main issue regarding degrading time, fast or slow, is that the faster it degrade, the more difficult it is to work with in loading department, and it can also cause trouble when store incorrectly, we all know hunters keep cartridges in places not suited for storage

We have had incidents here in Denmark where cartridges loaded with water solube wads has caused barrels to exploded, therefore for instance xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx cartridges has been taking of the market, it also cause a lot of other issues, these are not a problem with our solution, our wad is not vulnerable to moist

I think if you have the time it would make sense to talk over zoom sometimes next week?

Best regards
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Denmark

 

[terrier1]

BASC have caused more harm than good in the lead free debate.
They did not consult the membership on this decision.
And why are the discussions on lead free
ammunition being hidden in the minutes of the meetings at BASC.
If you have nothing to hide why.
No comment on this then Connor.

 

[Tim.243]

Let's come back to that point in 2029.

Let's see why you swerved this post before 2029!
You post about the data being correct well the "data" in this clip is correct just not very good.

Post in thread 'Interesting open letter concerning the lead shot/ammunition ban'

Jul 30, 2025

A lot of us are in the same situation @Conor O'Gorman . BASC is totally out of touch with the common shooter / deerstalker. I have BASC membership but wouldn't choose it if I had an option. BASC's virtue signalling is sickening.

@Conor O'Gorman min 7.17
I was brought up on a hammer 20 bore and you don't load a hammer gun with the hammer back
People can get hurt and close to losing their job.
Also add poor understanding of gun safety Rory.

• Tim.243

• 

 

[Ratel]

Hammer guns.

There's now a loss of the link between those who actually used them (as that is only what the had) and those who see one, buy it, and then take it out.

Here's how I was "taught" to unload by someone who only ever used a hammer gun.

1) When after you had loaded it, closed it, gone to "high port" and cocked it and then the birds didn't come you unloaded it by opening it with the hammers still cocked. And then when the gun was open you lowered the hammers.

2) You could then, after 1), either stand on your peg like that - gun open, hammers down, cartridges in the breech. And if the birds started to come you closed it, stood ready at what would be called "high port" and then cocked the hammers and waited for the birds to present the chance of a shot.

3) If they didn't then you repeated 1).

It is 1) that many now don't do. But resort to the very unsafe practice of lowering the hammer (which has to be done by pulling the trigger) with the hammer "spur" kept supposedly under the control of the thumb.

Below at 4:25 or so onwards is how NOT to do it.

All well and good until you get a cold day or a wet day and the "spur" escapes from the thumb and the hammer then falls. And if you "try before you buy" and you cannot fully operate the top lever to open the gun while both hammers are fully cocked? Then pass it by. Because it is an inferior, and flawed, design.

When using a hammer gun, even in my early teens (probably due to a double discharge once) I never cocked the hammers until ready to shoot ie when my quarry was coming or running away. Even then it was cock one hammer, shoot. If a miss cock the other and shoot again. I was always told " The second barrel is for a second rabbit or bird".

 

[tackb]

can we do polls on here ? just a thought that a yes no poll on whether basc (intentional lower case as thats how i think of them now) has performed in the members interests over the lead ban might be a way to see how the shooting community feels about basc's current performance?

 

[Spear Chucker]

I don't see that day to day in communication with members on myriad issues and as for lead ammunition there have not been many queries whether to me, or my colleagues and that is also the case at shows and events. I appreciate there are a few forum members with strong views on moving away from lead ammunition and whilst they are entitled to their views they are not mainstream views, albeit the sheer volume of their comments may make it appear otherwise. What is the BASC virtue signalling you find sickening?

Conor, are you serious? Are you living in some lead free parallel dimension? Indeed, is it possible thst you might be suffering the effects of exposure to excessive levels of lead?
On what planet are the pro lead/anti ban lobby a minority? I can only assume you have been asleep for two years or that your dishonesty and neck know no limits. We have recent surveys where 85%of respondents do not favour a switch to non lead.
So far, having been shown clearly to be out of your depth on the facts and science, you have tried to divert attention from your humiliation by telling us we were bullies and lecturing us on manners when you were clearly beyond the pale and supporting an aggressor. Now you seem to have just resorted to promoting a line that is plainly dishonest. Are your superiors aware of what you are doing on this forum in the name of BASC? Have you any idea how damaging it is for the standing of BASC?
To be fair, even if they did, they either wouldn't understand it, wouldn't care or act.

 

[Chris Richardson]

can we do polls on here ? just a thought that a yes no poll on whether basc (intentional lower case as thats how i think of them now) has performed in the members interests over the lead ban might be a way to see how the shooting community feels about basc's current performance?

That’s a very good idea

 

[Spear Chucker]

Hammer guns.

There's now a loss of the link between those who actually used them (as that is only what the had) and those who see one, buy it, and then take it out.

Here's how I was "taught" to unload by someone who only ever used a hammer gun.

1) When after you had loaded it, closed it, gone to "high port" and cocked it and then the birds didn't come you unloaded it by opening it with the hammers still cocked. And then when the gun was open you lowered the hammers.

2) You could then, after 1), either stand on your peg like that - gun open, hammers down, cartridges in the breech. And if the birds started to come you closed it, stood ready at what would be called "high port" and then cocked the hammers and waited for the birds to present the chance of a shot.

3) If they didn't then you repeated 1).

It is 1) that many now don't do. But resort to the very unsafe practice of lowering the hammer (which has to be done by pulling the trigger) with the hammer "spur" kept supposedly under the control of the thumb.

Below at 4:25 or so onwards is how NOT to do it.

All well and good until you get a cold day or a wet day and the "spur" escapes from the thumb and the hammer then falls. And if you "try before you buy" and you cannot fully operate the top lever to open the gun while both hammers are fully cocked? Then pass it by. Because it is an inferior, and flawed, design.

Always felt the training I had on hammer 410 and 20b gave me a far better consciousness of basic safety than I might have had on "swankier " hammerless guns. Just a personal thing, not a criticism of anyone less fortunate than us who didn't have the advantage of learning on hammers!

 

[Spear Chucker]

I don't think so, I'm hoping that Hortonium or something similar arrives by then, I'd no more buy steel cartridges than I would I an EV

Ah! The EV. Another matter altogether. Often asked by clients about them. When I have finished with insurance and safety horror stories, they usually go ICE!

 

[Spear Chucker]

Across the various shooting forums, Facebook, friends and friends of through random group chats? I think you'll find the issue is far bigger than a few on here that actually voice their opinion on it. Just because you aren't aware of it, doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.

Fieldsports channel survey had 85% (not sure how many that is) against a switch to lead free.
Apologies. Brain in back to front. Was foxing until the early hours. With LEAD (no runners either!)

 

[Liveonce]

he only has to look at cartridge sales figure lead vs non toxic to see how much support there is for the move away from lead.

 

[Utectok]

Can we have a separate forum for people to moan about the lead ban Otherwise it’s going to be a long 3 years! That way we can reclaim SD for people who actually have a life?

 

[Woodenbeam]

One of the primary claims of the new legislation is to remove lead from dead animals that will then be consumed by raptors and other wildlife. It makes no sense to allow 22 centrefires to continue using lead, especially if carcasses of foxes, rabbits etc are left for other wildlife to consume.

Here we go again
And they have the gall to pop at the common sense pro lead, anti legislation peasants for repeating themselves?
Of course the evidence is there for all to see………..the massive decline in corvids & raptors suffering painful deaths from toxic lead ingestion