Firearms (Amendment) Rules 2025

[Cyres]

All over the press today.
The operation Titanium stuff appears to be creeping in through the back door. Talk of interviewing partners and alike
Whats BASC.., SACS and alike doing about it and why aren't we being bombarded by info relating to the up and coming consultation.?
D

 

[Jon P]

All over the press today.
The operation Titanium stuff appears to be creeping in through the back door. Talk of interviewing partners and alike
Whats BASC.., SACS and alike doing about it and why aren't we being bombarded by info relating to the up and coming consultation.?
D

Our FEO’s are already interview partners- I had to be spoken to in a separate room from the wife when her shotgun certificate was being renewed a few weeks ago. Farm I shoot on local- farmers wife was spoken too when he renewed his shot gun certificate.

 

[M@tt]

They'd have to throw a wider family net to find someone related to me who doesn't shoot.

My wife probably has more firearms than me, our boys are both avid shooters, my parents, brothers, uncles, cousins, and even my niece, all shoot. Only my sister doesn't have a certificate and that's because she can borrow a shotgun for the birds.
It's what comes from being in a large farming family.

 

[Klenchblaize]

They'd have to throw a wider family net to find someone related to me who doesn't shoot.

My wife probably has more firearms than me, our boys are both avid shooters, my parents, brothers, uncles, cousins, and even my niece, all shoot. Only my sister doesn't have a certificate and that's because she can borrow a shotgun for the birds.
It's what comes from being in a large farming family.

Therein potentially lies a problem if they consider your referees to be overly biased in favour of firearms ownership. As in they may well feel a need to cast their net wider.

More of an early thought at this stage but one can see where this ultimately might lead to.

K

 

[WalkedUp]

I am a referee for quite a few people, and write letters of support for many more, however I have also declined on occasion. I get spooked as soon as people start wanting to ‘cheat’ the system or ask me to bend the truth, even in an innocuous way. On an individual, personal level I have no objection in principle to other associates (colleagues, partner, neighbours, shooting club members, syndicate members, ghillies, landowners etc) being asked however it would need to be a balanced review with the right to respond. If an authority ask enough people eventually they are going to find an anti-, or someone with an axe to grind to black ball one’s application. Else beware of submitting a planning application, skipping your cousin’s wedding to go on holiday, or having a barbecue on your neighbour’s laundry day!

 

[zambezi]

...they may well feel a need to cast their net wider...one can see where this ultimately might lead to.

Seeking the input of people on the periphery of a shooter's life could be hugely problematic.

What say a neighbour a few doors down holds very strong anti-hunt views? Or is a member of PETA or the ALF? Or merely holds the view that firearms are a dangerous anachronism with no place in modern society?

If a Firearms Licencing Officer were to poll them, how impartial would the reply be?

Simply this: a person unqualified to serve as a referree may be polled. How could an FLO ignore feedback [however lacking in credibility it might appear] ?

This feels very similar to the nonsense that total strangers can make an accusation against an individual who then has an NCBI listed against their name. No recourse in law to testing/rebuttal. This seems a very odd way to a democratic and just society.

 

[25 Sharps]

In perhaps 20 providing references I have only been contacted 2x by the Police and both were very superficial enquiries to demonstrate I knew the applicant.

I’ve been contacted every time, for a brief conversation along the lines of ‘do you know of any reason why ‘x’ should not be granted a certificate.

I’ve also refused in the past for a few people (company director so get asked by employees), largely because I don’t feel I know them well enough to provide the answer.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

In Germany there is a thing known as a Führungszeugnis basically it is a certificate of conduct, sometimes referred to as a police check, background check or criminal records check, this is an official document which costs 13€ to get at the local authority office which proves there is no record of you in the legal system of having done naughty stuff. This is the only check required when doing the hunting exam which then if you pass it entitles you to own firearms. Opinions of others ie (Referees) are not required.

 

[WW.]

Knew of someone who got several firearms then had a number of people mention they'd started abusing certain drugs. FEO was informed, whose response to the caller was 'do you think this poses a risk'. Nothing was done.

 

[timbrayford]

In Germany there is a thing known as a Führungszeugnis basically it is a certificate of conduct, sometimes referred to as a police check, background check or criminal records check, this is an official document which costs 13€ to get at the local authority office which proves there is no record of you in the legal system of having done naughty stuff. This is the only check required when doing the hunting exam which then if you pass it entitles you to own firearms. Opinions of others ie (Referees) are not required.

Fantastic idea along with the Jagdschein !

 

[skypie]

I have recently gone from having just a shotgun certificate to also been granted a FAC so my application was treated as a grant. Lancashire police contacted both references and also my sponsor.

However before I started shooting I was struggling to think who to ask for a reference, just a few of my friends are vegetarian and not keen on hunting (I know, I know). But we just tend not to discuss it. And a lot of family friend are in the police so that rules them out.

Still wasn’t a big issue but it is limiting .

 

[Apthorpe]

Fantastic idea along with the Jagdschein !

We already have such a thing in the UK - the DBS.

 

[timbrayford]

We already have such a thing in the UK - the DBS.

DBS?

 

[Liveonce]

DBS?

A DBS check, or Disclosure and Barring Service check, is a record of an individual's criminal history, used by employers to assess suitability for certain roles, particularly those involving vulnerable groups. It replaces the older Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) and Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA) systems.

 

[zambezi]

A DBS check, or Disclosure and Barring Service check, is a record of an individual's criminal history, used by employers to assess suitability for certain roles, particularly those involving vulnerable groups

The DBS check can be set to run "continuously". In this mode, your records are recursively reviewed. This is useful if you are likely to be constantly engaged in roles that require such vetting. You can supply your DBS number to whoever needs to review that status and it will always be up-to-date.

 

[Spear Chucker]

I am a referee for quite a few people, and write letters of support for many more, however I have also declined on occasion. I get spooked as soon as people start wanting to ‘cheat’ the system or ask me to bend the truth, even in an innocuous way. On an individual, personal level I have no objection in principle to other associates (colleagues, partner, neighbours, shooting club members, syndicate members, ghillies, landowners etc) being asked however it would need to be a balanced review with the right to respond. If an authority ask enough people eventually they are going to find an anti-, or someone with an axe to grind to black ball one’s application. Else beware of submitting a planning application, skipping your cousin’s wedding to go on holiday, or having a barbecue on your neighbour’s laundry day!

"I get spooked as soon as people start wanting to ‘cheat’ the system or ask me to bend the truth, even in an innocuous way"
We need to remember that in giving a reference we are making a statement in law, to an authority that will make decisions that could affect the well being of the public. I think that it is possibly a criminal offence to make a misleading statement of any sort to a licensing authority. In commerce it is regarded as criminal fraud. In our world it is worse. I believe it is the same for giving or soliciting/using a false reference. Serious stuff.
I remember that there was a case some time back where a person was being dealt with for professional negligence. It transpired that they had used false references and the referee was jailed for intentionally misleading the employer.
So being careful in such situations is no bad thing.

 

[timbrayford]

A DBS check, or Disclosure and Barring Service check, is a record of an individual's criminal history, used by employers to assess suitability for certain roles, particularly those involving vulnerable groups. It replaces the older Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) and Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA) systems.

Thanks, I'd heard of CRB but not that one

 

[Apthorpe]

‘I’ve been in the gun trade for 40 years. I fear Labour’s crackdown will destroy it’

Experts claim newly tightened shotgun licensing laws will only serve to kill shooting sports and curtail conservation

www.telegraph.co.uk

According to this article, these changes apparently go much further than I was aware, and introduce firearms-style "good reason" and presumably "variations" for each individual shotgun.
BASC (the org of which I'm a member) doesn't appear to have publicised the same understanding of the rules as some in the gun trade. Fingers crossed that this isn't another massive regulatory mis-step.

 

[enfieldspares]

That seems fair enough.

But what is truly flying under the radar is the adoption of aspects of Project Titanium by an FLO near you...

I see one of the questions is "would he ever hurt an animal"?

Err? Asking this of either my Nigerian wife or my Jamaican ex (the thirty-two year old's mother and here below pictured) who both have been known to kill chickens by having them head down, upside down, and cutting their throats with a Mora knife? Indeed there is a "killing cone" for just that somewhere in the corner of seldom use bits and pieces in my back garden. Note to viewers...the deer shown was shot and already dead and gralloched before being decapitated.

 

[enfieldspares]

Well that's me well and truly buggered as I only have one referee now so hold only an SGC, the second one I fell out over his son smoking skunk in his back garden next to mine.
With me living mainly overseas but keeping a house in the UK for about two months per year you only get to superficially know people who cannot act as referees. When my SGC runs out I will now have to move all my crap to Germany. Reminds me of the good old pistol ban that got me to move over here.

Where do you go shooting? Or at which shop do you buy your cartridges? There will be someone there who knows you?