Advice on suitable shotgun cartidges for an old midlands hammer gun

[Crowstalker]

Hi

As the title suggests im looking for some recommendations/advice on feeding an old Midlands hammer shotgun I have inherited.

It does have a stamp saying it has 2 and 3/4 inch chambers however I don't know if these are original or they have been rechambered in later life, I have no evidence or suspicion either way on this im just thinking out loud as I read somewhere yesterday that some of these old guns did get rechambered.

Even if they are 2 and 3/4 chambers im thinking of sticking to 2.5 inch cartidges and ideally nothing too potent at all as there is a hair line crack on the stock and I don't want to make anything worse. Barrels are in very good nick given this guns age and life.

This gun will mostly be used for the odd walk about the field so mostly wood pigon and crows.

Looking online yesterday there seems to be a few offerings from hull and eley and in paper cases. I actually really like the idea of the paper cases as I assume that is what would have originally Been fired from it, but I have no experience with paper cases I heard they get damp and swell?

I do have some hull x comp in 21g loads and they are 65mm, from memory these are very light shooting loads so they might be a good option as well.


Free free to comment on any suggestions or even experiences you have of using these old, lovely guns. Even on how to look after them.

 

[Druid]

These are nice to shoot through my SbS, plastic case, fibre wad, 26g of no6.

Imperial Game 12 | Game & Hunting Cartridges | Hull Cartridge

Perfect for partridge, glorious for grouse. A previous "Game Cartridge of the year" as voted by The Field, Shooting Gazette, Sporting Gun, Shooting Times.

www.hullcartridge.co.uk

 

[Sika98k]

Years ago I used to read Sporting Gun before it became an advertising platform. They ran a test on numerous cartridges. Eley Impax came out as the cartridge with the lowest pressure. Shot a few boxes through a W.R.Pape hammer gun I had a yen for. A pleasant cartridge to shoot.

 

[Crowstalker]

These are nice to shoot through my SbS, plastic case, fibre wad, 26g of no6.

Imperial Game 12 | Game & Hunting Cartridges | Hull Cartridge

Perfect for partridge, glorious for grouse. A previous "Game Cartridge of the year" as voted by The Field, Shooting Gazette, Sporting Gun, Shooting Times.

www.hullcartridge.co.uk

Thank you, they look good and not too potent.

 

[Crowstalker]

Years ago I used to read Sporting Gun before it became an advertising platform. They ran a test on numerous cartridges. Eley Impax came out as the cartridge with the lowest pressure. Shot a few boxes through a W.R.Pape hammer gun I had a yen for. A pleasant cartridge to shoot.

Impax Traditional 12Ga | Shotgun Cartridges Delivered Nationwide

Order Impax Traditional 12Ga online and have them delivered nationwide | Next day delivery where possible

www.justcartridges.com

Funny I saw them yesterday when I was trying to get some ideas, I see they do it in a paper hull as well but if it doesn't affect the pressure much a plastic hull is probably more practical.

 

[Stalker-of-the-deer]

Hull three crown or imperial give great kills, smooth aswell

Eley impax used to be good but the batch i purchased a while ago have been naff tbf. Really sooty and dont give great kills.

 

[Stalker62]

I have an old R. Huges & Son Hammer Gun (1890) - bottom gun.





Damascus barrels. Not in the least bit fussy.

 

[tonyhall200]

When you are not allowed to use lead ammunition anymore for live quarry,check with a competent gunsmith that your gun is safe using steel.
Stock up on your prefered cartridges.

 

[Crowstalker]

When you are not allowed to use lead ammunition anymore for live quarry,check with a competent gunsmith that your gun is safe using steel.
Stock up on your prefered cartridges.

Stocking up is my goal. I only really shoot this gun once or twice a year normally around Christmas, I would say 500 cartidges will do my lifetime!

 

[Crowstalker]

I have an old R. Huges & Son Hammer Gun (1890) - bottom gun.

View attachment 437115



Damascus barrels. Not in the least bit fussy.

Lovely guns, I love the darker wood on the bottom one.

 

[HC243]

Try some black powder?

 

[Crowstalker]

Try some black powder?

In theory yes but getting anything black powder related here in NI is next to impossible. Not that it's not allowed i think getting it across on the ferry is a nightmare hence why most dealers dont bother.

 

[HC243]

That’s a shame - great fun to shoot.

 

[cooksey]

21 gram 7.5 aim to kill everything under 40 yards just like that gun was designed to do!
Maybe push to a 29 gram 6.

You'll kill as many pheasants under 40 yards with 7.5 as you will 32 gram 5.

 

[enfieldspares]

It does have a stamp saying it has 2 and 3/4 inch chambers however I don't know if these are original or they have been rechambered in later life, I have no evidence or suspicion either way on this im just thinking out loud as I read somewhere yesterday that some of these old guns did get rechambered.

If it has come from a reputable source the validity of the proof and chamber length will have been checked. Indeed the gun may bear stamps noting "1 1/4 ounce shot"? Or in a diamond a 12 over a letter C. That C being what to see with the 12. For there were hammer game guns and hammer "duck" guns and hammer guns made (by such as Midland Gun) for export to markets where 2 3/4" cartridges were the local normal fodder.

That said just because you can doesn't mean you should. But in today's market many 70mm length cartridges will carry as payload bit 28 grams (1 ounce) or even 24 grams of shot. Simply scale of manufacture means that it is cheaper for a factory to keep a machine set up for 70mm cases and need to vary only shot load dropped, powder load dropped, and wad length used and not need to readjust final the final crimping and shaping dies.

I'd personally think that you Midland Gun needs to be weighed. If it weighs 7 lbs 4 ozs plus in "old money" I think it was likely a hammer "duck" gun from when made. Especially if a careful inspection shows now other proof marks denoting 2 1/2" cases or a 12 (on its own) in a diamond.

MY ADVICE - GET THE CRACK EXAMINED THOROUGHLY AND IF NEED REPAIRED BEFORE USING ANY CARTRIDGE OF ANY LENGTH IN THE GUN AS IN A WORST CASE EVEN A LIGHT LOADED 2 1/2" CARTRIDGE WILL BE ENOUGH TO MAKE SOME APPARENT SLIGHT CRACKS OPEN FURTHER OR COME ASUNDER.

 

[Sika98k]

Impax Traditional 12Ga | Shotgun Cartridges Delivered Nationwide

Order Impax Traditional 12Ga online and have them delivered nationwide | Next day delivery where possible

www.justcartridges.com

Funny I saw them yesterday when I was trying to get some ideas, I see they do it in a paper hull as well but if it doesn't affect the pressure much a plastic hull is probably more practical.

But a paper case will fall to bits in the weather quite quickly whereas a plastic case if you can’t find it will be there for years and years.

 

[muddy42]

Hi

As the title suggests im looking for some recommendations/advice on feeding an old Midlands hammer shotgun I have inherited.

It does have a stamp saying it has 2 and 3/4 inch chambers however I don't know if these are original or they have been rechambered in later life, I have no evidence or suspicion either way on this im just thinking out loud as I read somewhere yesterday that some of these old guns did get rechambered.

Even if they are 2 and 3/4 chambers im thinking of sticking to 2.5 inch cartidges and ideally nothing too potent at all as there is a hair line crack on the stock and I don't want to make anything worse. Barrels are in very good nick given this guns age and life.

This gun will mostly be used for the odd walk about the field so mostly wood pigon and crows.

Looking online yesterday there seems to be a few offerings from hull and eley and in paper cases. I actually really like the idea of the paper cases as I assume that is what would have originally Been fired from it, but I have no experience with paper cases I heard they get damp and swell?

I do have some hull x comp in 21g loads and they are 65mm, from memory these are very light shooting loads so they might be a good option as well.


Free free to comment on any suggestions or even experiences you have of using these old, lovely guns. Even on how to look after them.

guns generally get rebarrelled beyond the chamber so that shouldn't change. Even so a compentent gunsmith can measure the chamber length. You can get a good idea by feeling with a finger or posting used shotgun cartridges down. There will be a max proofed load in ounces e.g. 1 and 1/8 oz = 31.9 grams.

you need to watch out because crimped cartridges expand to be longer than original rolled cartridges. But it doesn't sound like you will be anything near the maximum. free to post a picture of the proof marks.

 

[enfieldspares]

Funny I saw them yesterday when I was trying to get some ideas, I see they do it in a paper hull as well but if it doesn't affect the pressure much a plastic hull is probably more practical.

In theory plastic cases will deliver more rearward thrust as they are more slippery than paper cases which will grip the chamber better when fired. And rearward thrust transmitted to the stock by the rear point of tang is what often splits gunstocks.

It's why in rifles proof cartridges are given a wipe over on the outside with oil. So as to put more rearwards thrust on the bolt locking lugs. And for scatter gun users why plastic cartridges are better in modern self-loading guns as they don't hold against the chamber sides as much when times comes to be ejected.

Also (and why it used to be used for the "view" proof) blackpowder although delivering less pressure will deliver that pressure the full length of the barrel unlike faster burning "smokeless" powders. So in a gun with thin barrels past the three quarter way down mark smokeless powder is supposedly kinder to them than would be blackpowder.

 

[timbrayford]

But a paper case will fall to bits in the weather quite quickly whereas a plastic case if you can’t find it will be there for years and years.

I never had a problem with paper cases and if the local gun shop stocked them I'd use them rather horrid smelling plastic. Older shooters may remember the wonderful aroma of burnt paper case, combined with the old recipe Young's 303 and wet spaniel!

 

[Sika98k]

I never had a problem with paper cases and if the local gun shop stocked them I'd use them rather horrid smelling plastic. Older shooters may remember the wonderful aroma of burnt paper case, combined with the old recipe Young's 303 and wet spaniel!

I’m of that era also.