Firearms possession and burglar alarms

[little hawk]

I have in the past been strongly advised to have a burglar alarm by a listing FEO. I am not in a high crime nor urban area of England now that I have moved to our new house in the country. Question, is there any basis in law requiring a burglar alarm if you have an FAC and possess rifles for deer management? None of the other deer folk I know have one.

 

[PEA]

No legal requirements for an alarm.

 

[Klenchblaize]

My take is you may have relocated to a lower crime rated area but the overall risk of burglary may be greater due to the remoteness of your new property.

If you do install an alarm system, please ensure it is given of monitored status.

K

 

[little hawk]

Okay, no legal requirement for a burglar alarm.

But if I do install one, make sure it is monitored.

Thanks

I am not being cheap, but mainly I am dissatisfied with my present alarm company that cannot make one work in our new location and wish to do away with it altogether.

 

[andyk]

No and yes.

There’s no statute that says you need it.

What there is is guidance from the HO on licensing, which includes security. This can include security that’s additional to a safe. The guidance does talk about it being risk based though, so a blanket policy may not be in keeping.

Risk can include more than whether you’re in a high crime area, and certainly includes consideration of what you’ve got and how many you have.

That said, the only real way to challenge it, if the department won’t agree to drop the requirement, is to refuse, be rejected/revoked and launch an appeal.

In my experience, an alarm that alerts you via an app may satisfy them, so avoiding the need for a 3rd party monitoring contract.

 

[rocketdogbert]

My FLD has asked for an un-monitored alarm should my holding go beyond ten. The only requirements being audible and at the least covering the room with my safe in
Relevant requirements are here, and as @andyk says, it’s about overall risks, not necessarily holding

Firearms security handbook 2020 (accessible)

www.gov.uk

 

[markyw]

While the requirement for an alarm looks to be "guidance", some forces have notional numbers of firearms relative to security. Surrey is 10 before needing an alarm and 20 before needing a monitored alarm, from what I have been told. Getting a definition of monitored is the hard part. All my security cameras report intrusion to me, but that may not be good enough.

Regards

Mark

 

[little hawk]

I think it is worth considering an alarm that alerts you via an app as this might even be more effective than a monitored system. Then the system could be very specifically targeted, say just the gun room for instance. As we possess nothing much that really warrants having a general burglar alarm, then really the only reason is for the rifle. The gun cabinet is well hidden and behind its very secure steel door that is well in excess of the usual home security. If required, I'll get one just for the gun room.

 

[little hawk]

I only have 3 rifles and a shotgun and do not expect to increase this. So maybe a monitored alarm is other the top? I also have as said higher than average physical security also.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I only have 3 rifles and a shotgun and do not expect to increase this. So maybe a monitored alarm is other the top? I also have as said higher than average physical security also.

Only you can make that call.

I specifically mentioned "monitored" rather than specifying something like the now defunct BT Red Care offering, as this might well be something you monitor via a phone app.

K

 

[Dave_45]

If you were advised to get one and don’t , and the worst happens , it won’t shed a good light on you.

If you do get one and the worst does happen…

Then you’ve exhausted all avenues you possibly could have to keep your firearms safe and acted responsibly.

 

[little hawk]

The new authority and local FEO has not advised me to have a burglar alarm, it was where I was previously. I think I am in the clear regarding advice for my new place. If it arises subsequently with the new authority, I will adjust to suit. But I think I can reasonably target just alarming my guns and the room they are stored in and contain the costs of a all singing and dancing burglar alarm.

 

[Deermanagement]

Do not be surprised if it becomes a condition of licencing in the future

 

[Cyres]

In a word no. Only if your force has specific criteria in relation to the no of firearms you hold. It also depends on the general house security ie locked window units and multi lock doors. At my recent renewal I was asked if I had a dog.
With the advent of quite sophisticated video door bells which are connected to your phone then that would be a very good idea to fit. There are some good reviews on line and some do not require subscriptions.
Some SD members have posted that they have video camera systems linked to their phones which could be useful if your house is in a remote area. Also how good is your phone signal?
D

 

[andyk]

Technology makes some of these things quite hard to argue against in the current ‘climate’.

While a 3rd party monitored alarm is still expensive, one that reports back to your phone can be had for less than a few hundred quid, and WiFi cameras for a lot less than fifty.

I don’t want to get into a debate about whether it should be required, but I can see a lot of FLDs may start to feel that requiring a basic alarm/camera system isn’t a huge burden to put on applicants.

 

[wytonpjs]

In a word no. Only if your force has specific criteria in relation to the no of firearms you hold. It also depends on the general house security ie locked window units and multi lock doors. At my recent renewal I was asked if I had a dog.
With the advent of quite sophisticated video door bells which are connected to your phone then that would be a very good idea to fit. There are some good reviews on line and some do not require subscriptions.
Some SD members have posted that they have video camera systems linked to their phones which could be useful if your house is in a remote area. Also how good is your phone signal?
D

@Cyres As we've separately discussed, A&S FLD are rigidly sticking to this number for "an intruder alarm to BS4737 3.30:2015 or equivalent and ideally monitored by a NSI monitoring centre with an appropriate response".

2.24 For these purposes, a “larger” number of firearms may be taken as meaning more than twelve guns (again being cognisant as to whether to include the likes of muzzle loading firearms). As with level two, it is not enough to base an assessment on the number of firearms alone – other factors in paragraph 2.23 are equally if not more important, and regard must also be had to the type of firearms, their potential danger if misused and their likely attractiveness to criminals as well as the factors mentioned in that paragraph. Sound moderators, spare barrels, spare cylinders and component parts should not be considered as part of the total.​

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[Whitefront]

Never seen the point of an alarm - not in a rural area, anyway. If you try to protect your property while a burglary is ongoing, you might get injured - or possibly revoked, if you are too successful. In large swathes of the country, the police won't turn up in time to prevent anything anyway. And the official detection rate for burglary is just 3.5 per cent. Burglars know this. And alarms make no difference whatsoever. The only people who say they do are invariably connected with the alarm industry, or so my insurance company told me.

No, your best bet is to have good perimeter security and a cheap CCTV or ring camera system. Then, when you see people trying to break in, publicly tweet something rude about their sexual orientation. Based on the recent Heathrow precedent, that should get a bevy of armed police on your doorstep in no time...

 

[Rake Aboot]

The answer is no.

Most of the above are just opinions .

 

[enfieldspares]

I have in the past been strongly advised to have a burglar alarm by a listing FEO. I am not in a high crime nor urban area of England now that I have moved to our new house in the country. Question, is there any basis in law requiring a burglar alarm if you have an FAC and possess rifles for deer management? None of the other deer folk I know have one.

No. And in truth unless it is linked to something that notifies a control room that initiate a response it is little more than a noisemaker. That said the best security is to push put your "frontier" as it were as far from the place of storage as you can and have layers. As at each layer there is the chance that the burglar will "turn back" as going on is either too difficult or too risky.

Therefore security light linked to PIR, visible security cameras that can be see even before a person enters your curtilage, that sort of thing. Clear evidence of not one but two locks on your front door. Ladders locked up if access by climbing is a possibility. And last but not at all least one access to the property only from the road so that a burglar can never be sure that if the householder returns that their vehicle isn't then trapped.

 

[enfieldspares]

Never seen the point of an alarm - not in a rural area, anyway. . And alarms make no difference whatsoever.

No, your best bet is to have good perimeter security and a cheap CCTV or ring camera system.

Pretty much this. If it is just a "noisemaker" it serves only as a deterrent if a burglar fears that activating it would draw immediate attention either from a police response or a neighbour responding.