Will this be the new norm?

Leica Fortis 6 - Bright and powerful.
ABL said:
Someone put it to me recently that they had observed that as muntjac move into an area in numbers the roe start to disappear. Worth those wishing for muntjac in their areas to reflect whether they really want that if it comes at the expense of their roe stalking?
Click to expand...
TBH it makes no difference to me, people can wish all they like, you can't blame Muntjac for spreading like they do as that is what they do.
Some outfitters leave muntjac all the summer as the bucks have no antlers then they have a cash crop later in the year :eek:
Others leave Roe a couple more years same with Fallow. You have to wonder who's side the guides are on and I say it is the £££ side lol
This goes around and around and they longer people and "leave them an extra year" the more there are. :rofl:

People should stop pretending to be John Hammond

 
Norfolk Deer Search said:
Roe are persecuted and have almost been wiped out in some areas, both can live in harmony quite easily, on the bit I use in Essex the neighbouring stalker and I have a common arrangement to leave to roe alone to let them bound back which suits me, I can shoot roe at home.
Click to expand...
I grew up in Oxfordshire during the 1980’s. I spent a lot of my teenage years roaming the countryside wishing I was back in the African bush. Other than down in Stonor deerpark I never saw any Roe or Fallow.

In about 1991 we started to see the odd Muntjac, but no Roe. I used to beat on local shoots, and there were really no deer. We would see a muntjac once or twice a season. It was a talking point. I got my FAC in 1996, and my stalking was all in the North of Scotland. There was none locally and indeed all those on the shoots that I attended thought stalking was something done strange beings crawling the heather in Scotland and rifles were something rather sinister. We used shotguns for just about everything including foxes.

Indeed when I moved to Scotland in 1999, one of the reasons was for deer stalking and wildfowling.

Roe were once common across the British countryside and then were coming eradicated by over hunting. Indeed I believe the Roe in southern England were brought across from continent as curiosities for deer parks, in the same way that Muntjac and CWD were.

I fear that the attitude of shooting all deer will very quickly reduce populations to non sustainable basis - if a doe cannot find a buck then no little ones can be born. And they will all be gone.

I do find it very odd that the likes of Packham et al seem very keen at protecting raptors etc - again which had been completely persecuted, but are very keen at wiping out the deer.
 
Tim.243 said:
TBH it makes no difference to me, people can wish all they like, you can't blame Muntjac for spreading like they do as that is what they do.
Some outfitters leave muntjac all the summer as the bucks have no antlers then they have a cash crop later in the year :eek:
Others leave Roe a couple more years same with Fallow. You have to wonder who's side the guides are on and I say it is the £££ side lol
This goes around and around and they longer people and "leave them an extra year" the more there are. :rofl:

People should stop pretending to be John Hammond

Click to expand...

I would leave a roe buck until I see its potential, cull it if it’s 💩 leave it if it’s good, I’ve left roe good roe bucks for years and years, they do the job for you, it’s the same for all species, big fallow bucks are persecuted, so are all the male species, personally I like to leave them to grow old, the old bastard as I call him was a roe buck I knew for 8-9 years, head had completely gone back, big antler bases going to points no big tines just old bumps

That’s how they should be shot.
 
Deer should be watched and understood instead of being persecuted, yes I’ve killed a lot of deer I don’t deny it, but now i look back at those times with some regret and some degree of sorrow, I’m not the man I once was in my personal stalking and I’m glad of that.

You lot will all your technical advantages, keep going, but don’t bitch and winge when the bottom of the bottle appears.
 
ABL said:
Interesting. Those of you with hoards of muntjac, have you many roe left or have they been displaced by the muntjac?
Click to expand...
Roe numbers seem to be making a comeback now that we are absolutely hammering the muntjac on the big estate I stalk on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ABL
Puds said:
Roe numbers seem to be making a comeback now that we are absolutely hammering the muntjac on the big estate I stalk on.
Click to expand...
That could be as you are not shooting so many roe, the thing is the estate let the MJ get to a point so you had to do something.
Why are pigeons so successful because with the seasons they breed all year and have a very varied diet from buds in someone's garden to a thousand of them in a rape field "why" because they find the right food all year. And with guides not shooting muntjac also breeding all year also because the cash head is not ready they just carry on then spread out being small and hide well, have no problem eating in your garden or chowing on the field margins.
They only do well as they are small eat almost anything breed all year around and live in your garden lol
 
Last edited:
Norfolk Deer Search said:
I would leave a roe buck until I see its potential, cull it if it’s 💩 leave it if it’s good, I’ve left roe good roe bucks for years and years, they do the job for you, it’s the same for all species, big fallow bucks are persecuted, so are all the male species, personally I like to leave them to grow old, the old bastard as I call him was a roe buck I knew for 8-9 years, head had completely gone back, big antler bases going to points no big tines just old bumps

That’s how they should be shot.
Click to expand...
And they keep all the youngsters out of the way. Minimal thrashing and damage done. Plant the trees properly in 1.2 metre tubes and don’t bother with fencing. The trees do perfectly well and in about 6 to 7 years you start getting a canopy and trees are big enough that Roe don’t damage.

If you shoot everything you see , you then get lots of youngsters coming in and causing chaos.

It’s a well understood concept, whether its wild boar on the continent, elephants and buffalo herds in Africa, and indeed the old stalkers absolutely understood this as well. Leave the good ones alone.

Yet all the desk bound experts want all deer shot.
 
Heym SR20 said:
If you shoot everything you see , you then get lots of youngsters coming in and causing chaos.

It’s a well understood concept, whether its wild boar on the continent, elephants and buffalo herds in Africa, and indeed the old stalkers absolutely understood this as well. Leave the good ones alone.
Click to expand...

Same as foxes with sheep. If you're seeing the sane fox and not losing lambs, leave them alone. The last thing you need is ones that have been bumped from elsewhere coming in. Even if they don't take lambs straight away the increased pressure on natural food will mean they start.
 
Heym SR20 said:
Yet all the desk bound experts want all deer shot.
Click to expand...
Ain’t that a fact!

The SD and FB are classic examples of blowing smoke up people, giving all the big well done, when really it’s not, it’s just murder and destruction.

Deer can be correctly managed, watch more shoot less until the time is right.

Deer management is not deer management anymore or vermin control.

The SD should be renamed the VD vermin directory
 
valevelo said:
Same as foxes with sheep. If you're seeing the sane fox and not losing lambs, leave them alone. The last thing you need is ones that have been bumped from elsewhere coming in. Even if they don't take lambs straight away the increased pressure on natural food will mean they start.
Click to expand...
I see the logic in what you are saying but unfortunately the reality is often different with foxes. Yes to a degree resident foxes will hold territory to the exclusion of others but that doesnt prevent other foxes coming onto ground to take chickens, pheasants, lambs etc. Also how do you tell if its the same fox and how do you tell the trouble makers from the non trouble makers?

Pretty well all the ground I shoot foxes on we take any opportunity and the foxes are shot. To be fair I will leave them alone when they have cubs if at all possible but if there are losses of livestock then I have a job to do. I have spent weeks after troublemaking foxes and seen dead lambs left as bait ignored in favour of the fresh ones.
 
Nickb said:
This is the problem though, they've eaten everything in the meantime 😅
Click to expand...
The more stalking pressure you put on the ground the more the deer don’t play ball then all this BS night license comes in, less pressure and right place and right time you can keep plodding along at it and job sorted!

you’ve not got to be a very bright stalker to figure out that you put pressure on fallow or red night and day what are they gonna do?

They’re gonna give you the 🖕 and **** off somewhere else where they can’t be got.

So for next winter when things really really get going they’ll be looking for the next solution to the same problem!
 
Norfolk Deer Search said:
The more stalking pressure you put on the ground the more the deer don’t play ball then all this BS night license comes in, less pressure and right place and right time you can keep plodding along at it and job sorted!

you’ve not got to be a very bright stalker to figure out that you put pressure on fallow or red night and day what are they gonna do?

They’re gonna give you the 🖕 and **** off somewhere else where they can’t be got.

So for next winter when things really really get going they’ll be looking for the next solution to the same problem!
Click to expand...
Not trying to pick a fight mate...I promise... but interested to know how you think areas with huge herds of fallow can deal with them when they are in "safe havens" during the day then spill out onto ground and cause damage at night? Combined effort and hit them really hard once a month etc...Interested in your opinion 👍
 
Mike1979 said:
Not trying to pick a fight mate...I promise... but interested to know how you think areas with huge herds of fallow can deal with them when they are in "safe havens" during the day then spill out onto ground and cause damage at night? Combined effort and hit them really hard once a month etc...Interested in your opinion 👍
Click to expand...
You put pressure on them in all areas night and day they will just **** off somewhere where they won’t get shot!

It’s called survival. That’s what they do.
 
Mike1979 said:
I see the logic in what you are saying but unfortunately the reality is often different with foxes. Yes to a degree resident foxes will hold territory to the exclusion of others but that doesnt prevent other foxes coming onto ground to take chickens, pheasants, lambs etc. Also how do you tell if its the same fox and how do you tell the trouble makers from the non trouble makers?

Pretty well all the ground I shoot foxes on we take any opportunity and the foxes are shot. To be fair I will leave them alone when they have cubs if at all possible but if there are losses of livestock then I have a job to do. I have spent weeks after troublemaking foxes and seen dead lambs left as bait ignored in favour of the fresh ones.
Click to expand...

Yeh, all foxes and cases are going to be different I guess. Maybe this dog was the exception I don't know, half his brush had gone and lost an ear so pretty recognisable. Had no lambs lost in 3 years whilst he was about then the hunt killed him and started losing lambs that lambing.

Probably the exception, but animals do strange things sometimes. Obviously helped he was recognisable, without that you can't always take the chance and its shoot on sight
 
valevelo said:
Yeh, all foxes and cases are going to be different I guess. Maybe this dog was the exception I don't know, half his brush had gone and lost an ear so pretty recognisable. Had no lambs lost in 3 years whilst he was about then the hunt killed him and started losing lambs that lambing.

Probably the exception, but animals do strange things sometimes. Obviously helped he was recognisable, without that you can't always take the chance and its shoot on sight
Click to expand...
That makes perfect sense 👍 Opposite way for me ...first "proper" bit of ground 20 odd years ago and they were having lambs killed all over the place...shot pretty well everything I saw and it stopped. Eased up on them and off it went again the next year so anything I get a chance on I shoot 👍
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

New Deer Stalking App - First Light
2 3 4
Replies
71
Views
4K
Tony0851
T
Is this salvageable?
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
moeggesit
M
  • Article Article
Mixed Bag....
Replies
9
Views
423
Tim.243
Tim.243
New stock suggestions
2
Replies
22
Views
1K
pablo.222
pablo.222
Going back to the basics!
2
Replies
28
Views
2K
Mike1979
M
New Avon Arms
Back
Top