You say one thing and do another. Your format is much the same all the time, having first hand experience in subjects is a far cry from guessing
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jimmer.13
Well-Known Member
You seem to be invested in issues that involve UK stalking and training providers. I was interested in what experience you have over here in the UK. I have a fair amount of dealings with Dutch hunters and I can say with confidence and certainty that competence levels vary. I find this a bit frustrating at times as especially as they have completed a national vocational standard?
That's why I ask, because it seems common practise for the members in this topic to put people down instead of triing to have an open discussion.I don’t think it was directed at you.
Just take a breath and relax
When the arguments run out they resort to calling people dumb or trying to discredit etc. Kind of Capreolusboy is doing. So they are proving my point by doing so.
Take note @tjm160
Ah! Trying to dig underfoot. Now stabbing at the Dutch course, which you know nothing about.
Also, who were the huntera, what were their backgrounda, wxperience, age etc? Or are they just "all bad, very bad, the worst there are" in a Trump voice?
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jimmer.13
Well-Known Member
Seriously I’m not having a stab at anyone. You really need to calm down a bit.
I was merely pointing out that no amount of training for some people, makes them a competent hunter.
I have had a quick read of what training is required in the Netherlands and it seems very similar to other European countries.
But what is your experience and investment in UK deer stalking?
Have you had a bad experience with County Deer Stalking or the Capreolus Club?
Genuine question I’m not trying to discredit you or have a dig or look for an argument. Just a healthy debate.
I find it particularly interesting that when you ask someone who loves the dmq and said courses for their experience level you are met with deafening silence….
No Emilio, on the contrary, I agree with you entirely and apologies, the very English wording wouldn't translate.
You had the correct judgment, the utter idiocy on display on this thread is best just risen above.
jimmer.13
Well-Known Member
I was expecting a reply along the lines of..
Yes I stalk regularly in the UK and have had many good experiences but personally I think Peter Jones comments may be harmful to the stalking community in general.
Or…..
No I have not had really much experience in shooting activities in the UK but as an outsider looking in I don’t think friction between training providers is helpful to the stalking community in general.
And could go on to say…..
We had something similar happen over here and the Anti shooting lobby capitalised on it.
That is what I would expect as a measured response…
But there you go
What you are saying is irrelevant. The discussion is about a guy trying to discredit other peoples education to promote his own. It is that simple. He does not rant, he does worse.
He should stop those practises, CDS/Capreolus have to promote their own, not try discredit other people or the level of education, because anti's will see and use this. The danger lies within, keep discussion out of the public eye.
When, not if, political views change on deer management, which is allready somewhat ongoing and will continu, (because the numbersgame is won by cities, not the country) the whole industry is in trouble.
Same happened in Holland, hunting is dissaster here now. People are more and more detached from countrylife and believe the Disneyfication in media of nature is real. This will happen more and more in the UK also, because cities grow way faster.
We have anti's now being sponsored by charity, funded by government and guided by very good lawyers. These anti's operate international, there are no information boundaries in this age, so this all will be shared. I think you very much underestimate them.
People really should stop discussion out in the open and work together. There is enough to go around for everybody. This type of YT clip by a known hunter in Holland could lead to political questions about the level of education, public safety or even lawsuits and lead to banning hunting for private people. Nothing goes unnoticed.
jimmer.13
Well-Known Member
Thank you
Now I see where you’re coming from and you make a valid point
And a remarkable improvement on your written English
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Nvm, good response above, thanks!I was expecting a reply along the lines of..
Yes I stalk regularly in the UK and have had many good experiences but personally I think Peter Jones comments may be harmful to the stalking community in general.
Or…..
No I have not had really much experience in shooting activities in the UK but as an outsider looking in I don’t think friction between training providers is helpful to the stalking community in general.
And could go on to say…..
We had something similar happen over here and the Anti shooting lobby capitalised on it.
That is what I would expect as a measured response…
But there you go
So where’s the idiocy ? ( name calling again by the way well done ) I’ve expressed my opinion that Peter is doing nothing the dmq don’t do , where is the untruth or idiocy there ? By the way there is a huge difference between rising above and not being able to give an answer because you do not know ….
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QUOTE="jimmer.13, post: 3458397, member: 8491"]
Thank you
Now I see where you’re coming from and you make a valid point
And a remarkable improvement on your written English
[/QUOTE]
Thanks! The other guy really p*ssed me off with his condescending ways and Dutch discussiion is not UK discussion apparantly, we lack subtelty.
So regarding the other questions; we try come over as often as possible to the UK and have done 20+ outings so far and will ad to that again soon. No bad experiences, only good. Learned a lot and also seen a lot of different ways to go about. But no talking smack about others even if different views to others.
Regarding Dutch hunters; Holland has a proper education now, but that has changed quickly thru time, very much because what I typed above, you have to almost be a biologist to start hunting nowadays. Older hunters had it much easier and some have a different mindset which shows.
Also the weak point in my opinion with the Dutch course is the lack of real world experience you get out of it. Combine that with low availability of hunts and mentors this is not a good thing for the less talented.
That is the reason we come over for guided stalks, I like learning in practise and think this neccesary. Theorethical knowledge is valuable, but alone not enough.
Thank you
Now I see where you’re coming from and you make a valid point
And a remarkable improvement on your written English
[/QUOTE]
Thanks! The other guy really p*ssed me off with his condescending ways and Dutch discussiion is not UK discussion apparantly, we lack subtelty.
So regarding the other questions; we try come over as often as possible to the UK and have done 20+ outings so far and will ad to that again soon. No bad experiences, only good. Learned a lot and also seen a lot of different ways to go about. But no talking smack about others even if different views to others.
Regarding Dutch hunters; Holland has a proper education now, but that has changed quickly thru time, very much because what I typed above, you have to almost be a biologist to start hunting nowadays. Older hunters had it much easier and some have a different mindset which shows.
Also the weak point in my opinion with the Dutch course is the lack of real world experience you get out of it. Combine that with low availability of hunts and mentors this is not a good thing for the less talented.
That is the reason we come over for guided stalks, I like learning in practise and think this neccesary. Theorethical knowledge is valuable, but alone not enough.
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Thanks, sometimes it is hard for me to get the UK intonation or intent and the dynamics between members.
Shame some here have to try put others down.
It is indeed with the cert collectors calling other's with a lot more experience idiots
jimmer.13
Well-Known Member
Makes perfect sense mate.
I help out with a Dutch contingent and they tell me much of what you say. They are over a couple of times a month and bring different guests each time hence my comment on the level of experience.
They come here to gain experience as you have pointed out, stalking the Netherlands has become increasingly difficult.
I see your passion in preserving what we have here in the UK and you are correct we should not be complacent and allow in fighting to be used against us and that’s across the board and includes all forms of hunting.
I think the point others were trying to make were pretty much the same as yours just some how got lost in perception and translation.
Its all got worse not better ! The reason is plain and simple - Its all about the money and jobs for the boys now, allong with over inflated egos
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I heard of the decline first hand from a friend, who got me into hunting.
His father was a well known Dutch hunter with big funds who had the last driven hunt in Holland which ended in 2001.
Once driven was forbidden he could hold onto the lease, but only with supervision from 2 people which they had to pay, dictated by the municipality under pressure from the anti's.
When pressure became too high and they could not afford the costs anymore, the hunting was taken over by a wealthy hotel family to deflect the anti-pressure. They were able to hold a share in the lease so they at least could still hunt.
Last season the lease was ended by the municipality and hunting taken over by "public servants". Which, in fact are hunters who are paying the public organisation running the show to be able to hunt. They also have to follow an extra mandatory hunting course costing around 7.500 pounds.
Because of wolve issues, unsolved because of -you probably guessed it- the anti's, nothing much is seen nor shot on the 700 hectares in the last 2 years. So people are succered into paying large sums of money, without any decent ground to hunt, on highseats, because it is too busy for stalking.
Be very careful with what you have in the UK. It can change very quickly and very easy.
My friend is not even trying for new ground in Holland, he is coming over to the UK with us later on in the year to get a taste of proper hunting culture once again.
Dutch hunting nowadays is almost impossible. It eroded away quite fast from 2000 on because of anti politics. Much changed in 20-25 years.
I heard of the decline first hand from a friend, who got me into hunting.
His father was a well known Dutch hunter with big funds who had the last driven hunt in Holland which ended in 2001.
Once driven was forbidden he could hold onto the lease, but only with supervision from 2 people which they had to pay, dictated by the municipality under pressure from the anti's.
When pressure became too high and they could not afford the costs anymore, the hunting was taken over by a wealthy hotel family to deflect the anti-pressure. They were able to hold a share in the lease so they at least could still hunt.
Last season the lease was ended by the municipality and hunting taken over by "public servants". Which, in fact are hunters who are paying the public organisation running the show to be able to hunt. They also have to follow an extra mandatory hunting course costing around 7.500 pounds.
Because of wolve issues, unsolved because of -you probably guessed it- the anti's, nothing much is seen nor shot on the 700 hectares in the last 2 years. So people are succered into paying large sums of money, without any decent ground to hunt, on highseats, because it is too busy for stalking.
Be very careful with what you have in the UK. It can change very quickly and very easy.
My friend is not even trying for new ground in Holland, he is coming over to the UK with us later on in the year to get a taste of proper hunting culture once again.
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