30-30

[tjm160]

Thanks gents and Scott, I did wonder about velocity from the short barrel. However, it does appear that it may actually be lack of availability of copper bullet options that could well be the biggest issue.

Really appreciate the steer on the short .308 (scout) option. Will add that to the research and pondering....

 

[tjm160]

I like the idea of a lever action 30-30, but my head tells me every time that my current bolt action repeater rifles are better in every way for my stalking.

Completely agree Rory, for foot stalking I much prefer the 'long' rifle.

This itch is however driven by the very specific woodland high seat and 'truck' based stalking, both of which are becoming a sadly increasing necessity driven by health constraints.

 

[Smellydog]

How about one of the Berger single shots?



Every one has an opinion based on their own current situation or past experience.

I've used a few 6mm rifles, a 6.5mm and a few 308's, not to mention the 222's but actually I've shot, whilst not many in total compared to many here, more deer with my 3030's.
The one time I went on the hill with a 243 I honestly would of been ok with my at the time 3030. All my shots up there, 6, were under 200yds. Most under 100yds, especially when I realised the wood plots were full of deer! Even on the hill other guys were having to take 400yd shots and how they came home wet and cold with stories of near death experiences on a quad I soon realised I'll stick to the forest thank you.

 

[tjm160]

Totally agree and I would still very much like to go 30-30 and with the 16" barrel (plus mod), I'm just wondering whether there is any way to determine whether can reach 1,700 ft lbs without purchasing and trying.

 

[tjm160]

Seems someone else was on the same path a few years back:

T

Thread '30-30 legal ballistics from a 16.5” barrel'

Jan 6, 2021

Evening all,
Looking at chopping in my under used 308 (kitted up for target shooting in an AICS stock if anyone is interested!!) for something suitable for woodland stalking, and the Marlin 336 dark has a certain appeal, but it only has a 16.5” barrel.

talking to the chap who does my ammo for my 243 and 6.5x55, he doesn’t think 1700 ftlbs can be achieved in such a short barrel, hence I am wondering whether or not to jump up a calibre and go for the big daddy 45-70.

so before I do, does anyone on here have any views on whether 1700 ftlbs can be achieved with a 16.5” barrel in this...

• TringSaint
• Replies: 21
• Forum: Ammunition, Reloading & Ballistics

• 

 

[25 Sharps]

Seems someone else was on the same path a few years back:

T

Thread '30-30 legal ballistics from a 16.5” barrel'

Jan 6, 2021

Evening all,
Looking at chopping in my under used 308 (kitted up for target shooting in an AICS stock if anyone is interested!!) for something suitable for woodland stalking, and the Marlin 336 dark has a certain appeal, but it only has a 16.5” barrel.

talking to the chap who does my ammo for my 243 and 6.5x55, he doesn’t think 1700 ftlbs can be achieved in such a short barrel, hence I am wondering whether or not to jump up a calibre and go for the big daddy 45-70.

so before I do, does anyone on here have any views on whether 1700 ftlbs can be achieved with a 16.5” barrel in this...

• TringSaint
• Replies: 21
• Forum: Ammunition, Reloading & Ballistics

• 

You missed out on a threaded 20” on here, would have been perfect for what you’re after.

Totally agree and I would still very much like to go 30-30 and with the 16" barrel (plus mod), I'm just wondering whether there is any way to determine whether can reach 1,700 ft lbs without purchasing and trying.

The only way you’ll know for sure is trying in the gun, some chambers are looser than others, some barrels are faster.

 

[Chris Richardson]

Thanks gents and Scott, I did wonder about velocity from the short barrel. However, it does appear that it may actually be lack of availability of copper bullet options that could well be the biggest issue.

Really appreciate the steer on the short .308 (scout) option. Will add that to the research and pondering....

Mines a 595 shortened to 18 inch I’m afraid I can’t help with copper as I only shoot lead but I’ve taken roe muntys and red with mine on 150 gr

 

[tjm160]

Yes indeed Scott, it was that thread that peaked my interested in 30-30 as an option and I was kicking myself for not waking up and smelling the coffee sooner after it sold. I just love my 6.5CM (rifle and calibre) and didn't want to change. Using for half a dozen outings since has changed the mind. The awkwardness of lifting heavy long rifle into high seat I can deal with on it's own. Slinging to then add carrying a pair of Muntjac back through the woods has weakened the resolve. I know there are other extraction options, a shorter and lighter rifle just has a significant appeal. Similar with the Defender I now stalk from when I can; dismounting to pull rifle from slip in passenger seat and the 800g weight difference between 90 and S20 becomes very apparent, never mind the extra 6" or so of the S20. I've since reduced the S20 butt spacers by over an inch but that barely registers. Simply put, a more compact and lighter rifle has a significant appeal for my personal situation. Thanks everso for calling out that each barrel is different, my cognition isn't the best these days and so such school boy oversights are sadly readily made. Equally, tabling the weights of the respective options and the 16.5" is really the only worthwhile option. The added length of 20" I could perhaps live with, but it becomes significantly less worthwhile changing with the added weight.

3,883g Sako A7
4,849g Sako S20
4,036g Sako 90
3,989g Marlin Dark 30-30 16.5"
4,289g Marlin Classic 30-30 20.5"

I've pretty much reached the conclusion that the S20 sadly simply has to go. I'm with Paul at Corinium at the end of the month and will have a decent chat through with him. I don't want to end up with a 30-30 that I couldn't use on all species, although if that did happen, restricting to Muntjac wouldn't be the complete end of the world. I would then simply use the 90 30-06 from the Defender at all times regardless of species as is the case for foot stalks.

 

[Smellydog]

In the past I've had 16" 3030's and shot deer with it without even considering it's level of performance.

As far as I'm concerned if it is granted for deer shooting then that is what it will do.
I'm not aware of any law that imposses any burden of proof upon the user for any performance figures.
As the licensing authority has the responsibility to grant it for deer shooting it's their issue!

Only folk on here seem to make a fuss about it leading to quite frankly, over bearing peer pressure!

 

[tjm160]

I was just pondering why on earth the 1,700 ft lbs limit in England/Wales, when the calibre has probably killed more deer than any other calibre in the US.

I'm inclined to give it a try but will just chat through with Paul first, not least as he's the poor sod stuck with helping me get started with the reloading.

 

[Chris Richardson]

In the past I've had 16" 3030's and shot deer with it without even considering it's level of performance.View attachment 475215

As far as I'm concerned if it is granted for deer shooting then that is what it will do.
I'm not aware of any law that imposses any burden of proof upon the user for any performance figures.
As the licensing authority has the responsibility to grant it for deer shooting it's their issue!

Only folk on here seem to make a fuss about it leading to quite frankly, over bearing peer pressure!

Same here never bothered chronoing a rifle

 

[25 Sharps]

@tjm160 if you are going down this route be prepared to trash your brass very quickly. 30-30 brass thickness is like paper anyway and as you’re trying to push the cartridge beyond its normal capabilities you need makes of brass with the thinnest walls (Remington and Winchester) for capacity and a double based ball powder. After a couple of firings the brass is pretty beaten up.

As a new reloader I think you may end up biting off more than you can chew. My advice stays the same, lightweight 16” .308 with a 125 gr bullet at around 1800 ft-lb. This will be easy to load for and won’t be unpleasant to shoot in a light rifle.

 

[25 Sharps]

Buy this, get it shortened and threaded at 16” to have the best of both worlds

Henry Repeating Arms .308 Long range | GunTrader

Henry Repeating Arms .308 Long range for sale. Contact the seller today via the contact form or phone.

www.guntrader.uk

It’s .65 lb lighter than the .336 in .30-30 and shortening the barrel will make it lighter still.

Just find a smith who’s happy to shorten before you buy.

 

[tjm160]

Thanks Scott, with insight that good, I imagine Paul will say something very similar.

Pants, but perhaps for the best.

Thanks for the Henry suggestion too; brilliantly functional, just even more fugly than the Marlin Dark (but at least I could just about cope with that)

 

[Smellydog]

@tjm160 if you are going down this route be prepared to trash your brass very quickly. 30-30 brass thickness is like paper anyway and as you’re trying to push the cartridge beyond its normal capabilities you need makes of brass with the thinnest walls (Remington and Winchester) for capacity and a double based ball powder. After a couple of firings the brass is pretty beaten up.

As a new reloader I think you may end up biting off more than you can chew. My advice stays the same, lightweight 16” .308 with a 125 gr bullet at around 1800 ft-lb. This will be easy to load for and won’t be unpleasant to shoot in a light rifle.

Funny you say that about brass. I got plenty brass in stock but I'm still using stuff I bought years ago and it's been loaded several times!

I was just pondering why on earth the 1,700 ft lbs limit in England/Wales, when the calibre has probably killed more deer than any other calibre in the US.

Because some dam experts sat on a committee got involved and had to cover their arses incase they got accused of something!
Basically fear of ridicule made the decision!

 

[tjm160]

I hear you @Smellydog and as much as I agree, I just don't have the wherewithal to fight the system.

@25 Sharps after wiping the coffee off the Laptop, taking the glasses off and reflecting further, that could well be the solution. Thank you very much for sharing, I shall ponder at length and look into the added costs of shortening and screw cutting the barrel.

 

[Smellydog]

Loading some surplus bullets for anti squirrel patrol.

 

[25 Sharps]

Funny you say that about brass. I got plenty brass in stock but I'm still using stuff I bought years ago and it's been loaded several times!


Because some dam experts sat on a committee got involved and had to cover their arses incase they got accused of something!
Basically fear of ridicule made the decision!

With standard loads it’s a different story, but if it’s being run hot, trying to get 1700 ft-lb out of a short barrel the brass suffers. Both my marlins have sloppy chambers which doesn’t help.

 

[Smellydog]

Buy this, get it shortened and threaded at 16” to have the best of both worlds

Henry Repeating Arms .308 Long range | GunTrader

Henry Repeating Arms .308 Long range for sale. Contact the seller today via the contact form or phone.

www.guntrader.uk

It’s .65 lb lighter than the .336 in .30-30 and shortening the barrel will make it lighter still.

Just find a smith who’s happy to shorten before you buy.

I like the look of that more than a Browning!
I wonder what the trigger is like to work on.

 

[tjm160]

Seems like might just as well pick up a T3 in .308 and shorten the barrel.