Lads shot a few deer.

[John Gryphon]

It's Peter, John not one of the (many) Tim's

My mistake Peter,I read through obviously not properly and for some reason I thought your post was from Tim VSS...age related ha ha .

I've shot, the average carcass larder weights were: Females 8kg and Male 9kg.

Amazing how many blokes on here are shooting them with (IMO) calibres good enough for big reds. One would think a 222 or such would be fine,is that right?

 

[VSS]

Yes, they are very small, but just like your Sambar, they are not native. The difference being, they are classed as vermin, we don’t want them, they are, however, the finest eating Venison I have ever tasted, including Sambar…….So perhaps we do want them!

I thought your figures are to do with numbers, not size!

Muntjac are not classed as vermin, despite being a non-native invasive species. Their management and welfare is covered by the Deer Act, just the same as the other deer species in the UK, whether native or not.

Perhaps muntjac should be classed as vermin? Hmmm That's a debate for another day.
And if so, what about the other non-native deer species?

 

[wytonpjs]

My mistake Peter,I read through obviously not properly and for some reason I thought your post was from Tim VSS...age related ha ha .

Amazing how many blokes on here are shooting them with (IMO) calibres good enough for big reds. One would think a 222 or such would be fine,is that right?

As you probably know, our archaic gun laws here differ by region so a .22 CF would be legal to take muntjac and roe in Scotland but despite the efforts of some, they have not made in North of the border yet. Frankly, I think it's only a matter of time personally......

The Deer Act 1991 stipulates a minimum calibre and minimum muzzle energy of .240″ and 1700 ft/lbs for the lawful shooting of all deer species in England and Wales, except for only Chinese water deer and muntjac, where a minimum bullet weight of 50 grains, minimum calibre of .220 inches and minimum muzzle energy of 1000 ft lbs applies. Scottish legislation is slightly different and includes a minimum velocity requirement; there are two sets of ballistic minima, one specified for all deer species and a reduced requirement for roe deer only.​

​

I'm not a "foxer" so have no CF 22's. My first copper .243 load was stunningly accurate but only legal in KE terms for muntjac so I upped it be meet all species minimum as in the Summer months, my main quarry is muntjac and roe with an equal probability of both.

 

[John Gryphon]

My first copper .243 load was stunningly accurate

Would that be blowing shoulders off or 'pencilling" through?

 

[dartmoordog]

Muntjac are not classed as vermin, despite being a non-native invasive species. Their management and welfare is covered by the Deer Act, just the same as the other deer species in the UK, whether native or not.

Perhaps muntjac should be classed as vermin? Hmmm That's a debate for another day.
And if so, what about the other non-native deer species?

Yes, apologies, “vermin” is a little harsh, perhaps “pest” is a better category, although their are many around the Thetford area who describe them as Vermin, but as you say, that’s a debate for another day. As far as the other NN species, Fallow in my area are most definitely a “pest”, it is simply impossible to shoot enough, for us I have never seen a Munti or CWD in this area. That’s not to say there aren’t any, especially Muntjac. Who knows.

 

[wytonpjs]

Would that be blowing shoulders off or 'pencilling" through?

Neither, though I did have one where it turned through 90 degrees (head shot), exited, missed the spine and lodged under the haunch skin, 30m IIRC and one of the few .243 80gr Barnes TTSX that I have ever recovered. Another, mushroomed as intended and I had this "broken" one.

 

[John Gryphon]

@wytonpjs They do carry a bit of bulk these deer,here is a pair of young boys feeding one summer night. I walked down from the house to video them from my driveway. For those people that shoot stags at night it doesn't equate to hunting. These stags need another four plus years to be wall hangers.


And another big arsed young boy in late summer packing the pounds on.

 

[Sol]

I've mistaken hares for roe deer and roe deer for hare, our deer really arent big but Its worth considering that sambar are the third biggest recorded species in regards too deer, though like red deer being suggested 500kg in fourth a vast majority will never even have the genetics too reach that weight.

Google says an average of 100-230kg for the hinds and 250-350kg for the stags what seems a little more grounded within reality, when I did a mentor/guided outing with a keeper apart of my college program I took a red with him too the game dealers head and feet off It weighed 69 kilos and it wasn't a young stag either a 4-5 year old head 10 pointer, where in aus a spiker is 100kg no problem!

 

[John Gryphon]

though like red deer being suggested 500kg i

Oh boy that`s very wrong,it takes a jumbo Wapiti to get there. This pic has been on SD previously,its a young stag,lucky to be three that I knocked one morning that I was able to drag out and hook up so as to take home and weigh @ 450 LBS.



And another demo pic of a hinds gralloch at 104 lbs.

 

[CAVHUNT]

There are several limiting factors when comparing UK deer hunting to Aussie sambar deer
Where we hunt is not cleared, flat , private farm land. Our hunting is conducted on public and, in steep mountainous terrain which is heavily overgrown/encumbered with a variety of native trees, fallen timber/trees, thick jungle like bush and covered in non native Blackberry bushes.

Like you guys we are generally solo hunters but that is where the similarity ends. Even on a single days hunt we carry back packs with a variety of things in it, safety/first aid, food and drink, survival items and on our belts are a couple of knives, ammunition, Personal Locator Beacon [PLB] to call in the cavalry if badly injured [falls, snake bite or simply lost]. Like you guys we dress for bad weather but we wear gaitors and our footwear is sturdy, water proof boots.

What I am driving at here is we are heavily encumbered before we take one step away from our 4x4s. Given all the above our equipment and the terrain means we are physically challenged at the start.

After the shot. Just moving a dead 200/300Kg sambar around to remove legs and back straps requires great physical effort. Given that the hunter is probably several miles away from the nearest 4x4 track and his fourby there is the difficult, physical challenge of carrying out the venison. Generally one back leg at a time is understandable given that leg weighs 15+ kg [30+ Lb] and this meat recovery effort has to be repeated 3 to 4 times.

Given the physical effort involved it’s no wonder that we only shoot one every now and then plus there are weeks of meals in what has been retrieved. Neither is there any financial incentive to recover meat because unlike you UK fellas it is illegal for us to sell our wild venison to anyone.

I guess the thrust ogh what I’m saying is that I do not believe we can simply compare annual numbers ogh shot deer between UK and Oz. The species types, their size, distanse/difficulty in meat recovery, physical efort needed are just way too different for a simple comparison of annual numbers shot.

 

[dartmoordog]

Having visited you country on a few occasions, I absolutely get what you say 100%. But please do not think that where many of us hunt Deer is flat and cleared, where I live it is very far from that, and can be a challenge. But you make a very good point, which is appreciated by myself who has been to the Victorian high county, tough terrain indeed. As someone who has dragged big Red over rough, thick ground, your big animals will most certainly take some getting out.

 

[CAVHUNT]

Thanks dartmoordog. You are correct. I did make an assumption about flat land hunting. The photos and accompanying yarns that I read in "Write Ups" led me somewhat astray.