Ballistic apps

https://Immersive-optics.com/
T

Trigger260

Well-Known Member
I've never bothered with ballistic apps or even dialing in, as most of my shots are sub 200yrds. Having bought a new helix 2-16 scope to pair with my 007 4k I thought I'd have ago, so downloaded the element app. Unfortunately it just kept crashing so I changed to the arken app and this was a joy to use in comparison.I set a target out at 350yrds and inputted all the information needed into the app and it came back with 1.0mrad of elevation which was the same as the element app. I shot two 3 shot groups and I went down to the target and both groups were .2mrad high! I've had to bump my bc up from 0.425 to 1.5 to get my poi on target.
Is it normal for these apps to be this far out, and if so how do you guys in the know get around it? I know changing the bc has sorted it at that range but will it hold out to 600yrds which will be as far as I'll be going.
Cheers Trigger
 
Trigger260 said:
I've never bothered with ballistic apps or even dialing in, as most of my shots are sub 200yrds. Having bought a new helix 2-16 scope to pair with my 007 4k I thought I'd have ago, so downloaded the element app. Unfortunately it just kept crashing so I changed to the arken app and this was a joy to use in comparison.I set a target out at 350yrds and inputted all the information needed into the app and it came back with 1.0mrad of elevation which was the same as the element app. I shot two 3 shot groups and I went down to the target and both groups were .2mrad high! I've had to bump my bc up from 0.425 to 1.5 to get my poi on target.
Is it normal for these apps to be this far out, and if so how do you guys in the know get around it? I know changing the bc has sorted it at that range but will it hold out to 600yrds which will be as far as I'll be going.
Cheers Trigger
Click to expand...
Not sure if it’s the same but I follow the same process when fine tuning my DNT Zulus, alter the BC/velocity when shooting past the zero distance or scope height if below zero range. I think they start from data gained as averages but as you know all barrels are different, minimal discrepancies in ammo etc. once set just use and forget 😁
 
With ballistics apps it's an iterative process. A couple of points jump out from your post, there's no mention of -
  • Scope height.
  • Zero range.
  • Bullet velocity.
I find that each time I use the ballistics app I find mistakes and refine my data. I wouldn't expect to get a repeatable solution first or second time out. My App of choice is Strelok Pro, but for fun on Friday I tried setting up a profile in Applied Ballistics. The answers were almost identical.

Regards

JCS
 
jcampbellsmith said:
With ballistics apps it's an iterative process. A couple of points jump out from your post, there's no mention of -
  • Scope height.
  • Zero range.
  • Bullet velocity.
I find that each time I use the ballistics app I find mistakes and refine my data. I wouldn't expect to get a repeatable solution first or second time out. My App of choice is Strelok Pro, but for fun on Friday I tried setting up a profile in Applied Ballistics. The answers were almost identical.

Regards

JCS
Click to expand...
Scope height is 2inch
Zero 100yrds
Bullet velocity 3220 chronograph
I bought Strelok pro a few years back when I intended to have ago at some longer range targets, but It disappeared probably when I changed phones and it seems it can't be downloaded anymore.i had a look at the applied ballistic app but it didn't seem as user friendly to me, but that could just be me being a tech retard
Thanks for the reply
 
Interesting thread this. Thanks @Trigger260 I have always been recommended to go for the Strelok Pro, but apparently it is blocked from iPhone. It would be very interesting to hear other members’ views and experiences. I would be using the app for distances beyond 300m (not for stalking or hunting) with .223, 6.5 Creedmoor .308 and .300PRC
 
Put crap in get crap out with these apps...
Need as much "accurate" info as possible
I use kestrel drop and get density altitude off of that and input it
Applied ballistics unisex and its been on the ball ....you need to spend half hour regularly play with it...so it becomes 2nd nature to use

Paul
 
Trigger260 said:
I've never bothered with ballistic apps or even dialing in, as most of my shots are sub 200yrds. Having bought a new helix 2-16 scope to pair with my 007 4k I thought I'd have ago, so downloaded the element app. Unfortunately it just kept crashing so I changed to the arken app and this was a joy to use in comparison.I set a target out at 350yrds and inputted all the information needed into the app and it came back with 1.0mrad of elevation which was the same as the element app. I shot two 3 shot groups and I went down to the target and both groups were .2mrad high! I've had to bump my bc up from 0.425 to 1.5 to get my poi on target.
Is it normal for these apps to be this far out, and if so how do you guys in the know get around it? I know changing the bc has sorted it at that range but will it hold out to 600yrds which will be as far as I'll be going.
Cheers Trigger
Click to expand...

Changing your BC by that much will probably just throw everything else out entirely. I wouldn't have said .2 mrad was far off at all personally given thats 2 clicks on most scopes. There are alot of other variables at play, such as temperature, humidity, wind speed and direction, elevation, etc.
 
Hmmm.
With ballistic calculators the old maxim “Rubbish in rubbish out” is spot on.
My first bc foray was on a Zulus v1 which was hitting high beyond the 100 zero then good old Bruce bless him did a few posts on the Zulus and recommended that if hitting high increase your velocity in (I think) 50fps increments - this sorted mine out immediately and resulted in dead foxes beyond 300.
More recently the v2 has replaced the v1 on my triple deuce but no tweaking was required - 2.5 inch plates at 250 were a cinch yesterday.
The old v1 is now on my .22lr and the bc makes 100yds+ shots with CCI subs a doddle….
🦊🦊
 
As stated above, there are a huge range of variables at play affecting the ballistics of a bullet and they all impact each other. At closer ranges some are pretty insignificant (just point and shoot), but the longer the range the bigger effect and they become more meaningful.

The best explanation of this I have found is the Hornady podcast (also on YouTube). They take you through the science of ballistics in a way that’s highly relatable. If you understand the science, the apps (particularly theirs) make a lot more sense.

The particular episodes to note are:
No. 29 external ballistics part 1
No. 31 external ballistics part 2
No. 34 Bullet Drag and Ballistic Coefficient part 1
No. 44 Bullet Drag and Ballistic Coefficient part 2
No. 49 Why use 4DOF (The Hornady Ballistic App)

Each of the above is over an hour long. This is not so much a rabbit hole, more a rabbit warren, but I personally find the whole topic absolutely fascinating and if I have a long journey on my own (for some reason my wife doesn’t seem interested) I do find myself re listening to these.

The long and the short of it is the BC model was great in its day, but because drag changes with velocity, BC is only ever going to be an average - hence the need to ‘true’ your data for different ranges, particularly longer ranges.

Their phone app (which is free) uses a different approach based on equations of motion for each bullet and data from tracking each bullets trajectory with radar. The 4DOF app is a little bewildering at first, I had a few short plays with it and got very lost.

I finally set a side a full uninterrupted afternoon and worked it out. Nipped out with the old BSA 22lr. 4’’ plate. 145m. First three shots all hit. I quit while I was ahead with a smile on my face. Which is a neat link to another of podcasts…

No 50. Your groups are too small. But that is a whole different story

Hope this helps.
 
Trigger260 said:
Scope height is 2inch
Zero 100yrds
Bullet velocity 3220 chronograph
I bought Strelok pro a few years back when I intended to have ago at some longer range targets, but It disappeared probably when I changed phones and it seems it can't be downloaded anymore.i had a look at the applied ballistic app but it didn't seem as user friendly to me, but that could just be me being a tech retard
Thanks for the reply
Click to expand...
If you still have the old phone you can transfer Strelok with a third party app. I don't recall the name ATM but I moved mine from one phone to another the app and there are reasonably easy to follow instructions online
 
Trigger260 said:
I've never bothered with ballistic apps or even dialing in, as most of my shots are sub 200yrds. Having bought a new helix 2-16 scope to pair with my 007 4k I thought I'd have ago, so downloaded the element app. Unfortunately it just kept crashing so I changed to the arken app and this was a joy to use in comparison.I set a target out at 350yrds and inputted all the information needed into the app and it came back with 1.0mrad of elevation which was the same as the element app. I shot two 3 shot groups and I went down to the target and both groups were .2mrad high! I've had to bump my bc up from 0.425 to 1.5 to get my poi on target.
Is it normal for these apps to be this far out, and if so how do you guys in the know get around it? I know changing the bc has sorted it at that range but will it hold out to 600yrds which will be as far as I'll be going.
Cheers Trigger
Click to expand...
I wouldnt say its normal. Assume your Chrono is good? The BC should be what the manufacture states, to be honest..... I use ChairgunElite+ and its very good... Gets me almost perfect numbers out to a mile and beyond, on my 300WM. Have you got your scope height set in there right and is there an Zero Offset section in the app? (where you would potentially put in things like 1" high at 100yds)
 
Ye
jellmers said:
I wouldnt say its normal. Assume your Chrono is good? The BC should be what the manufacture states, to be honest..... I use ChairgunElite+ and its very good... Gets me almost perfect numbers out to a mile and beyond, on my 300WM. Have you got your scope height set in there right and is there an Zero Offset section in the app? (where you would potentially put in things like 1" high at 100yds)
Click to expand...
I measured the scope height and the zero is set correctly in the app! I think i need to get back out at the weekend and start again. I used my magneto speed chrono but I do still have my old pro chrono to cross reference.
Cheers trigger
 
Foxyboy43 said:
Hmmm.
With ballistic calculators the old maxim “Rubbish in rubbish out” is spot on.
My first bc foray was on a Zulus v1 which was hitting high beyond the 100 zero then good old Bruce bless him did a few posts on the Zulus and recommended that if hitting high increase your velocity in (I think) 50fps increments - this sorted mine out immediately and resulted in dead foxes beyond 300.
More recently the v2 has replaced the v1 on my triple deuce but no tweaking was required - 2.5 inch plates at 250 were a cinch yesterday.
The old v1 is now on my .22lr and the bc makes 100yds+ shots with CCI subs a doddle….
🦊🦊
Click to expand...
I was wondering wether it would be better to increase the velocity rather than adjusting the bc by that much! I've got a spare chrono so I'll take both with me at the weekend to compare.
Cheers trigger
 
royalewithcheese said:
Changing your BC by that much will probably just throw everything else out entirely. I wouldn't have said .2 mrad was far off at all personally given thats 2 clicks on most scopes. There are alot of other variables at play, such as temperature, humidity, wind speed and direction, elevation, etc.
Click to expand...
It's over 2.5inches at 350yrds and I can only assume this would get worse as the range extends!
Cheers trigger
 
Fudging velocity or BC, you really need to be shooting at a much longer distance, Igor recommended 800 yds or more. Definitely sounds like a data input error to be so far out at such a short distance.
I used to use Strelok Pro, found it relatively intuitive to use, but as been said above, you still need to input accurate information for all the variables. I too have failed to be able to install it on my new phone, even Huawei App Gallery said they've been stopped from offering it. But I still run it on an old phone for stalking distance checks, although I also physically check drops at 300m or so to validate.
For long range stuff, I shifted to AB to take advantage of the custom drag models offered, as they matched my DOPE more accurately out to 1200m. It's not so intuitive, and again as mentioned takes regular use to get familiar with.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Defibrillators
Replies
0
Views
168
Tom270
Tom270
First go at reloading, sanity check.
2
Replies
30
Views
1K
MTheaded but happy
MTheaded but happy
Sold: Garmin Foretrex 701 - with Applied Ballistics
Replies
4
Views
405
3595wilk
3595wilk
Quick load help
Replies
6
Views
262
bri2506
B
Zeroing a clip-on Thermal
Replies
8
Views
214
Mike1979
M
1967spud Reloading Supplies Ltd - UK Suppliers for Reloading Equipment supplies, We also stock Bullet Heads and Bullet Cases Guns Cabinets, Night vision and much much more...
Back
Top