If they opened up the seasons would you ………

[RCS Deer Management]

In my experience of night shooting I would say its only marginally more effective than day stalking, they still run off in all directions, deer will be deer no matter what time of the day.
It certainly isn't the answer to the current over population problem, it's just an another tool in the box.

My most successful outing last season was on the last evening on the hinds, we shot the lead hind, followed by 5 others, it was a 'WTF have we just done' moment, but far easier dealing with them then than in the dark, it was only dimpsy by

In my experience of night shooting I would say its only marginally more effective than day stalking, they still run off in all directions, deer will be deer no matter what time of the day.
It certainly isn't the answer to the current over population problem, it's just an another tool in the box.

Do you have much experience of night shooting deer? I tried writing that several times to try and write it in a way that didn’t sound arsey, but I honestly don’t mean it in a condescending way. I’m just interested.

 

[palmer_mike]

There was a time many years ago when I didn’t care, when killing deer was all I wanted to do, then I treated it as a job.

Now I’m the polar opposite, i do what i have to do nothing more nothing less

I’m confused, are you advocating shooting more deer or less deer?

 

[devon deer stalker]

Yes @RCS Deer Management I was originally named on a night licence many many years ago, they were very rare in those days, it was very specific in that only fallow were to be shot.

And NE issued me, as the lead stalker of 3 other deer stalkers (or managers if you prefer) a licence to cull red and roe in the past 5 years, and now I have the CL55, so yes, plenty of experience in night shooting and over 30 years of deer management.

 

[Leec6.5]

I’m confused, are you advocating shooting more deer or less deer?

Me I’m semi retired, full time job, i do what I can with the ground I’ve got, but yes I would have no problem in shooting heavily pregnant red or fallow

More deer need to be shot that’s fact, how it’s done I think needs to be addressed

 

[Leec6.5]

Lets keep this at the top

 

[David Barker]

I do think extending the doe / hind season to the end of April would be a good idea , don’t get me wrong in areas where there isn’t a huge deer problem you could just voluntarily stop whenever you like but I think it would be good especially in southern areas with big fallow populations

Chris extending the female season will not help in my opinion and would be foolish unless we concentrate on just the breeders.

 

[Chill 123]

I agree if the foetus has been born then there is no extra cruelty , But I know I have shot enough Muntjac does to have left dependent fawns in the cover , which will have horrible death when I have killed its parent . Some would say its part of the job we do ?

Chill

 

[cjm1066]

Heavily pregnant means no dependent young, so fine with shooting if necessary. Lengthing the seasons so we could cull all year which might stablise the vension market.

 

[TringSaint]

Heavily pregnant means no dependent young, so fine with shooting if necessary. Lengthing the seasons so we could cull all year which might stablise the vension market.

I think it would have the opposite effect, as the anti brigade would latch. Onto the fact that pregnant deer were being killed in spring and it would probably put a lot of people off buying it.

The biggest issue, imho, comes down to some pro stalkers holding tens of thousands of acres of land and using it to generate trophies as opposed to effective culling.

I have cleared up behind some of these individuals in the past because the land was still riddled with deer and the stalker was nowhere to be seen - all the trophy animals had been taken, leaving does and immature bucks.

That keeps the populations artificially high, so punters are happy, but it also creates a population issue that the rest of us can’t deal with.

 

[palmer_mike]

I suppose a lot of the objections may revolve around if one believes there such a thing a ‘a little bit pregnant’?

For pretty much the entire female season they will be pregnant at the start of the season if they are pregnant at the end?

 

[Mungo]

I think it would have the opposite effect, as the anti brigade would latch. Onto the fact that pregnant deer were being killed in spring and it would probably put a lot of people off buying it.

The biggest issue, imho, comes down to some pro stalkers holding tens of thousands of acres of land and using it to generate trophies as opposed to effective culling.

I have cleared up behind some of these individuals in the past because the land was still riddled with deer and the stalker was nowhere to be seen - all the trophy animals had been taken, leaving does and immature bucks.

That keeps the populations artificially high, so punters are happy, but it also creates a population issue that the rest of us can’t deal with.

Land hoarding and trophy stalking are at the root of a lot the problem - along with basic ignorance about demographics and exponential growth.

I have seen so many estates confront a rapidly growing deer population, but remain extremely reluctant to cull ‘too aggressively’. They just don’t recognise that once exponential growth has really taken off, there is no room to indulge in selective stalking.

An example: I was booted off a bit of ground 6 years ago when someone bamboozled the landowner. A month ago I was asked to come back ‘to clean up a few deer’. They had planted trees, which were now getting devastated. There were not ‘a few’ deer - the place was absolutely lifting. I shot 4 from the truck as I pulled up on the first outing. That’s been the pattern every outing since - though I do now have to walk 2-300m to find one. Tellingly, I’ve only seen one mature buck.

 

[TringSaint]

I suppose a lot of the objections may revolve around if one believes there such a thing a ‘a little bit pregnant’?

For pretty much the entire female season they will be pregnant at the start of the season if they are pregnant at the end?

It’s all about perception.
The antis haven’t yet latched onto the fact that most ruts are pre Xmas and most female deer can be shot up to end of March, so if mated then most likely pregnant.

But, and I guess the thinking goes a bit like for human abortions, at an early stage it’s a non viable foetus, so killing the mother doesn’t directly result in the killing of a full formed and viable fawn - it’s a collection of cells / very small embryo at that stage.

We all know that a late march pregnant doe will be holding part formed but non viable foetuses, but for now the public hasn’t been overly aware.

However, if the season was to be publicly removed by an act of law then this would get debated in the HoC and would hit the press for sure. So, we should be careful what we wish for!!

 

[Leec6.5]

I suppose a lot of the objections may revolve around if one believes there such a thing a ‘a little bit pregnant’?

For pretty much the entire female season they will be pregnant at the start of the season if they are pregnant at the end?

I don’t disagree in the slightest, but the real crux of the matter and you see it everywhere, everyone wants to shoot the bucks not the does.

A 5 years ban on buck stalking certainly wouldn’t go a miss!

 

[Leec6.5]

Land hoarding and trophy stalking are at the root of a lot the problem - along with basic ignorance about demographics and exponential growth.

I have seen so many estates confront a rapidly growing deer population, but remain extremely reluctant to cull ‘too aggressively’. They just don’t recognise that once exponential growth has really taken off, there is no room to indulge in selective stalking.

An example: I was booted off a bit of ground 6 years ago when someone bamboozled the landowner. A month ago I was asked to come back ‘to clean up a few deer’. They had planted trees, which were now getting devastated. There were not ‘a few’ deer - the place was absolutely lifting. I shot 4 from the truck as I pulled up on the first outing. That’s been the pattern every outing since - though I do now have to walk 2-300m to find one. Tellingly, I’ve only seen one mature buck.

That happened to me about 10 years ago, shooting 3 medal class bucks in velvet on a little scrap of land that they didn’t have permission on in front of them soon sorted that problem they never came back!

 

[TringSaint]

I don’t disagree in the slightest, but the real crux of the matter and you see it everywhere, everyone wants to shoot the bucks not the does.

A 5 years ban on buck stalking certainly wouldn’t go a miss!

Not everyone.
I’m an equal opportunities stalker - buck or doe, I shoot them all the same.

I do it for meat, tho, as I don’t give a stuff about trophies. Maybe if more stalkers who are paying for stalks did the same then the balance might shift, but it’s the pro stalkers selling medal heads for many hundreds or thousands of pounds that drives much of that demand as they make more money from bucks than does.

 

[Bowland blades]

Let’s cut the men from the boys, if the powers that be did away with the close season would you?

Like I said in a previous post, no one seem to care about the humble muntjac!

Yes or no?

Was thinking Males but for a small fast deer that normally is inside cover there will be lots of mistakes as these deer don't hang about in one spot long enough to sex and shoot after confirming if it is actually a Muntjac .
We cannot now remove them and they are even known in places in Scotland now , It will in time be the the most deer in the UK over time and the clock ticks faster every year

 

[Bowland blades]

As an aside , Does anyone actually use long nets and drive them ?

 

[Mike1979]

Not everyone.
I’m an equal opportunities stalker - buck or doe, I shoot them all the same.

I do it for meat, tho, as I don’t give a stuff about trophies. Maybe if more stalkers who are paying for stalks did the same then the balance might shift, but it’s the pro stalkers selling medal heads for many hundreds or thousands of pounds that drives much of that demand as they make more money from bucks than does.

Ultimately its supply and demand ...plenty of people who will pay silly money to shoot a "trophy" animal and therefore plenty who will cater for this demand. If you look at some of the businesses who offer all sorts of stalking they are there to make money and therefore they take advantage of every opportunity that they can to make some more. Also there are some whose only chance to shoot a deer is to go and pay to do it.

Just highlights that there is no easy solution...maybe the answer would be to ban people from paying to go stalking for 5 years and see where we are then

 

[Leec6.5]

Ultimately its supply and demand ...plenty of people who will pay silly money to shoot a "trophy" animal and therefore plenty who will cater for this demand. If you look at some of the businesses who offer all sorts of stalking they are there to make money and therefore they take advantage of every opportunity that they can to make some more. Also there are some whose only chance to shoot a deer is to go and pay to do it.

Just highlights that there is no easy solution...maybe the answer would be to ban people from paying to go stalking for 5 years and see where we are then

Not to ban people to pay to go stalking, just ban the shooting of bucks for 5 years.

 

[palmer_mike]

As an aside , Does anyone actually use long nets and drive them ?

Not legal as far as im aware.