I may have positioned myself behind a rifle in the wrong way until now

[andyk]

Nothing ‘looks’ wrong with your set up and you do what I do. Different scopes have different eye relief, so I wouldn’t read too much into where other people mount theirs.

I have 2 thoughts on what you say.

If your scope doesn’t have parallax adjustment, it may be your different head position is causing a parallax error which is why you get the flyer.

By holding a different, and less comfortable, position to simulate the different eye relief, you have an inconsistent hold which is certainly something that can lead to a pulled shot.

 

[Jagare]

Whilst standing close both eyes. Mount rifle into shoulder in a natural way. Open eye or eyes, I shoot rifle with both eyes open.
What do you see? A clear view through the scope or do you need to adjust eye relief, comb height, etc.
On my Mauser M03 I need an adjustable comb even with a 1-5x24 scope in low mounts.

 

[Tim.243]

Whilst standing close both eyes. Mount rifle into shoulder in a natural way. Open eye or eyes, I shoot rifle with both eyes open.
What do you see? A clear view through the scope or do you need to adjust eye relief, comb height, etc.
On my Mauser M03 I need an adjustable comb even with a 1-5x24 scope in low mounts.

I mentioned to the op that I pack my rifle stocks so the eye and cheek weld are bob on, Gaffa tape (black lol) and a type of dense foam.
Having my first shotgun fitted also (left cast) 50 years ago the "art" of mounting correctly started back then. It shows up instaily when given a right cast shotgun to try as I am looking down one side of the barrels. Fit and mount is a learnt thing which often goes unchecked as people look to deep into other way instead of addressing the basics.

 

[Jagare]

I mentioned to the op that I pack my rifle stocks so the eye and cheek weld are bob on, Gaffa tape (black lol) and a type of dense foam.
Having my first shotgun fitted also (left cast) 50 years ago the "art" of mounting correctly started back then. It shows up instaily when given a right cast shotgun to try as I am looking down one side of the barrels. Fit and mount is a learnt thing which often goes unchecked as people look to deep into other way instead of addressing the basics.

Exactly, on the Mauser I need 10mm lift on the comb to get a proper sight picture through the scope. When I bought the double rifle I thought it would need stock adjustment to get a good scope view, but it fitted perfectly as is.
I dislike having to be moving my head about to get a good sight picture when shooting driven game or woodland type stalking or on the running targets up the range where a quick shot is needed.

 

[Tim.243]

Exactly, on the Mauser I need 10mm lift on the comb to get a proper sight picture through the scope. When I bought the double rifle I thought it would need stock adjustment to get a good scope view, but it fitted perfectly as is.
I dislike having to be moving my head about to get a good sight picture when shooting driven game or woodland type stalking or on the running targets up the range where a quick shot is needed.

The devil is in the detail, a classic is when someone (wife) jumps in your car/truck and moves the seat! you complain (####### seat) then put it back to the place it fits you lol.
I lent my spare shotgun to a chap on a driven day as his gun broke, he shot like a demon on the next drive saying "this shoots so well"
Come the end of the day I had a look at his shotgun he had been using for quite a while, it was right cast with him being left handed like me.
That gun was replaced by a left cast model of the same type.

 

[webley701]

That you have way too much spare time

What a thing to say.

 

[randello88]

Hi everyone, thanks for the answers, i think i figured everything out. It was no secret that the 50 mm scope was too high for a straight standard stock (even if I mounted it as low as possible). So i tried and build a DIY comb riser, everything changed. Now it is obvious that I am more comfortable and the scope is mounted too far forward. I think I was placing the head more forward for inconsciously compensating for the low stock: placing the head more forward gave me more leverage to push the head laterally against the stock and keep the head steady. Otherwise the head would have been less stable and “floating” more. I basically had to push the head laterally on the stock since i couldn’t just lean it on the stock mode neutrally because the stock was too low.

With AR15 and other rIfles with iron sights or low scopes i wouldn’t ever push against the stock laterally with my head. I was doing it unconscously.

Moving the scope back a couple cm and making the comb 2-3 cm higher will fix it i think

Edit: this could explain why with these two rifle accuracy degraded just after the first 8-10 shots of range sessions, being excellent in the first 8-10 shots

 

[randello88]

What a thing to say.

The sunday 13 hours night shift in the ER i just finished would disagree with him

 

[Tim.243]

Hi everyone, thanks for the answers, i think i figured everything out. It was no secret that the 50 mm scope was too high for a straight standard stock (even if I mounted it as low as possible). So i tried and build a DIY comb riser, everything changed. Now it is obvious that I am more comfortable and the scope is mounted too far forward. I think I was placing the head more forward for inconsciously compensating for the low stock: placing the head more forward gave me more leverage to push the head laterally against the stock and keep the head steady. Otherwise the head would have been less stable and “floating” more. I basically had to push the head laterally on the stock since i couldn’t just lean it on the stock mode neutrally because the stock was too low.

With AR15 and other rIfles with iron sights or low scopes i wouldn’t ever push against the stock laterally with my head. I was doing it unconscously.

Moving the scope back a couple cm and making the comb 2-3 cm higher will fix it i think

Edit: this could explain why with these two rifle accuracy degraded just after the first 8-10 shots of range sessions, being excellent in the first 8-10 shots

Young Skywalker has passed the first test.
Well done.

 

[long_range_rob]

Hi everyone, just today i was looking at some scopes for my next rifle. I was struggling to understand why my khales 2-10x50 wouldn’t fit on a defiance ga hunter: the rear ring would touch the ocular bell because of the position of the rear rail being far back on these actions because of the wider ejection port vs my bergara b14). Looking at many pics online i found out something very interesting. I noticed that on average scopes in the pics where mounted 1 inch or so more toward the buttstock than the ones on my two main hunting rifles. I always got excellent accuracy out of them but sometimes i didn’t understand why i got flyers, especially after the first few shots at the range. This is something that i started noticing recently when i got into precision shooting for longer hunting shots (until now i limited myself to relatively close shots, with very good results).

So i started asking myself: it isn’t possible that so many people setup their rifles in a wrong way, there must be something wrong i am doing. I took my rifles and i made some tests. Either from prone and from sitting/standing, i found out that i was leaning my head more forward than it would be if i just leaned it on the stock, with neck muscles a little bit in tension, pushing the head more forward on the stock. If i just lean my head on the stock with no “extra” forward movement, the scope is a bit too far away, it’s a matter of less than one inch but it is noticeable.

It’s like if now i was using a more aggressive position on the rifle, like i was used to do using ARs and AKs in a more dynamic type of shooting. Neck muscles are definitely not totally relaxed.

The “close your eyes and you should have a clear sight picture”, something i always did when setting up my rifles, may have tricked me because, if i actually close my eyes and get to this more “aggressive” hold, i open them and the scope picture is perfect.
On the other hand, if i close the eyes and shoulder the rifle in a more relaxed way, without any neck muscles tension, i am far back of more or less 3/4 of an inch relatively to the scope ideal eyebox.

Just to add some info: i am 5’9” tall, i am young (for now!) and fit, i have a pretty standard LOP and my two scopes now are respectively 28.7 cm (11.3 inches) (khales helia 2-10x50i) and 27.5 cm (10.8 inches) (NF NX8 4-32x50 sfp) from the buttstock of my two rifles.

What do you think?

Pic of one of my rifles for reference (note that all my 2 RIfles have a 50mm bell scope with pretty low stock comb so the cheekweld has always been more of a chinweld, if that can help)

Try a Hunters of England strap on cheek raiser. I used them for years to give me a cheek weld. I’ve since progressed to Kalix adjustable cheek pieces on all my 75’s as I can’t abide a floating cheek weld.

 

[randello88]

Young Skywalker has passed the first test.
Well done.

People behind a monitor sometimes behave in a weird way LOL

As a young jedy and a psulychiatrist I know something about it

 

[randello88]

Try a Hunters of England strap on cheek raiser. I used them for years to give me a cheek weld. I’ve since progressed to Kalix adjustable cheek pieces on all my 75’s as I can’t abide a floating cheek weld.

Thanks man, i just ordered another brand one but I will keep this in mind

 

[Tim.243]

People behind a monitor sometimes behave in a weird way LOL

As a young jedy and a psulychiatrist I know something about it

I learnt all this many years ago so to me also others it is just practical common sense

 

[long_range_rob]

Hi everyone, just today i was looking at some scopes for my next rifle. I was struggling to understand why my khales 2-10x50 wouldn’t fit on a defiance ga hunter: the rear ring would touch the ocular bell because of the position of the rear rail being far back on these actions because of the wider ejection port vs my bergara b14). Looking at many pics online i found out something very interesting. I noticed that on average scopes in the pics where mounted 1 inch or so more toward the buttstock than the ones on my two main hunting rifles. I always got excellent accuracy out of them but sometimes i didn’t understand why i got flyers, especially after the first few shots at the range. This is something that i started noticing recently when i got into precision shooting for longer hunting shots (until now i limited myself to relatively close shots, with very good results).

So i started asking myself: it isn’t possible that so many people setup their rifles in a wrong way, there must be something wrong i am doing. I took my rifles and i made some tests. Either from prone and from sitting/standing, i found out that i was leaning my head more forward than it would be if i just leaned it on the stock, with neck muscles a little bit in tension, pushing the head more forward on the stock. If i just lean my head on the stock with no “extra” forward movement, the scope is a bit too far away, it’s a matter of less than one inch but it is noticeable.

It’s like if now i was using a more aggressive position on the rifle, like i was used to do using ARs and AKs in a more dynamic type of shooting. Neck muscles are definitely not totally relaxed.

The “close your eyes and you should have a clear sight picture”, something i always did when setting up my rifles, may have tricked me because, if i actually close my eyes and get to this more “aggressive” hold, i open them and the scope picture is perfect.
On the other hand, if i close the eyes and shoulder the rifle in a more relaxed way, without any neck muscles tension, i am far back of more or less 3/4 of an inch relatively to the scope ideal eyebox.

Just to add some info: i am 5’9” tall, i am young (for now!) and fit, i have a pretty standard LOP and my two scopes now are respectively 28.7 cm (11.3 inches) (khales helia 2-10x50i) and 27.5 cm (10.8 inches) (NF NX8 4-32x50 sfp) from the buttstock of my two rifles.

What do you think?

Pic of one of my rifles for reference (note that all my 2 RIfles have a 50mm bell scope with pretty low stock comb so the cheekweld has always been more of a chinweld, if that can help)

Try a Hunters of England strap on cheek raiser. I used them for years to give me a cheek weld. I’ve since progressed to Kalix adjustable cheek pieces on all my 75’s.

 

[Mr. Gain]

Stock fit is frequently undervalued by rifle shooters.
Adjusting eye relief is just the first move in compensating for ill-fitting stock geometry. Adding a comb riser and / or butt-pad spacer can make a world of difference.
As a case in point, I have a Steyr Scout in .308 that was a pig to shoot in standard configuration (snappy/flippy). Having added an adjustable comb and butt-pad, it is now so steady on firing that I can see the bullet strike the deer.
Good fit also permits speedier and more consistent shooting.
I also have rifles that don't fit well (mostly vintage ones I don't want to modify). They require a more consciously careful and deliberate approach if disappointment is to be avoided.

 

[Poh]

I try to set my eye relief up so I am as relaxed as possible, but it is always a trade off between prone and standing. If you are putting strain on the neck muscles it probably won't make much difference for relatively quick shots, but if you are holding aim, waiting for a deer to present the right shot, the muscles tire and you are more likely to pull the shot.
I tried this out on the range, taking three quick shots was more consistent than three shots with long holds, regardless of whether it was on sticks, bipod or bags. That's when I moved my scope back.

 

[randello88]

It makes sense

 

[Kalahari]

One thing that we rarely talk about is the effect of seasons and clothes on fit because of the effective change in LoP.

David,

 

[randello88]

One thing that we rarely talk about is the effect of seasons and clothes on fit because of the effective change in LoP.

David,

That’s another good point. Clothes and also backpack’s shoulder straps

 

[randello88]

I try to set my eye relief up so I am as relaxed as possible, but it is always a trade off between prone and standing. If you are putting strain on the neck muscles it probably won't make much difference for relatively quick shots, but if you are holding aim, waiting for a deer to present the right shot, the muscles tire and you are more likely to pull the shot.
I tried this out on the range, taking three quick shots was more consistent than three shots with long holds, regardless of whether it was on sticks, bipod or bags. That's when I moved my scope back.

I try to set my eye relief up so I am as relaxed as possible, but it is always a trade off between prone and standing. If you are putting strain on the neck muscles it probably won't make much difference for relatively quick shots, but if you are holding aim, waiting for a deer to present the right shot, the muscles tire and you are more likely to pull the shot.
I tried this out on the range, taking three quick shots was more consistent than three shots with long holds, regardless of whether it was on sticks, bipod or bags. That's when I moved my scope back.

I don’t find that much difference of eye placement between the two positions, maybe 0.5 cm