EU Reach Committee - 7yr Lead Extension

[Liveonce]

“The current government is unlikely to introduce new legislation to align the EU and GB lead ammunition restrictions.”

How do you know unless you try? Or is that code for we are not going to try to get the government to align with the EU as we are happy with the situation.

Aa others have said must be many trading reasons for alignment that could be explored by a competent legal guru.

 

[Mickeydredd]

“The current government is unlikely to introduce new legislation to align the EU and GB lead ammunition restrictions.”

How do you know unless you try? Or is that code for we are not going to try to get the government to align with the EU as we are happy with the situation.

Hence my post #98, I want them to state to members if they will make a challenge, and if not, justify why not.

Many decisions seem to get made on the basis of aligning with the EU, can’t see why this should be any different.

 

[Dave_45]

Without reading every single post...

What's the chances of us following suit and ditching copper or non toxic bullets and being able to use lead ?

 

[Chris Richardson]

Without reading every single post...

What's the chances of us following suit and ditching copper or non toxic bullets and being able to use lead ?

Zero

 

[Liveonce]

So EU Reach committee approve the lead ban 7 year transition for lead shot no ban on other lead projectiles,
3 month scrutiny period but unlikely to be challenged.

We the U.K. will be rowing against the tide, going to get challenging and likely expensive.

Europe’s Lead Gunshot Restriction Enters Final EU Scrutiny Phase

REACH Committee has approved the European Commission's proposal to restrict lead use..

www.face.eu

 

[enfieldspares]

So EU Reach committee approve the lead ban 7 year transition for lead shot no ban on other lead projectiles,
3 month scrutiny period but unlikely to be challenged.

We the U.K. will be rowing against the tide, going to get challenging and likely expensive.

Europe’s Lead Gunshot Restriction Enters Final EU Scrutiny Phase

REACH Committee has approved the European Commission's proposal to restrict lead use..

www.face.eu

If BASC announced that they would now successfully lobby the new Prime Minister and his relevant Ministers connected with such to amend the recent UK REACH instrument to bring ALL of the UK fully into lie with the EU REACH I'd rejoin BASC that very same day. No if's, no but's a genuine rejoin.

Indeed there is an argument that we should adopt in Great Britain anyway to address the otherwise nonsense that a Northern Ireland resident will in three years time but not able to lawfully but lead shotgun cartridges in Great Britain. As Northern Ireland will be under EU REACH rules not UK REACH rules.

Nor may a Great Britain resident invited to shoot in Northern Ireland be able to buy lead loaded cartridges here to take with him or her be that for game or clay pigeons. And surely the UK Internal Market Act 2020 is a starting point to challenge the UK REACH instrument?

So what say BASC, the CPSA, the CA and etc., etc.?

 

[cjm1066]

enfieldspares You make some very valid points, can you share them with the shooting organisations and your MP.

 

[Chris Richardson]

Hence my post #98, I want them to state to members if they will make a challenge, and if not, justify why not.

Many decisions seem to get made on the basis of aligning with the EU, can’t see why this should be any different.

Let us know if you get an answer, but I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you my friend

 

[Dunwaters]

If BASC announced that they would now successfully lobby the new Prime Minister and his relevant Ministers connected with such to amend the recent UK REACH instrument to bring ALL of the UK fully into lie with the EU REACH I'd rejoin BASC that very same day. No if's, no but's a genuine rejoin.

Indeed there is an argument that we should adopt in Great Britain anyway to address the otherwise nonsense that a Northern Ireland resident will in three years time but not able to lawfully but lead shotgun cartridges in Great Britain. As Northern Ireland will be under EU REACH rules not UK REACH rules.

Nor may a Great Britain resident invited to shoot in Northern Ireland be able to buy lead loaded cartridges here to take with him or her be that for game or clay pigeons. And surely the UK Internal Market Act 2020 is a starting point to challenge the UK REACH instrument?

So what say BASC, the CPSA, the CA and etc., etc.?

It appears that you have several intractable problems.
You don’t like BASC.
You don’t like the devolution of power within the UK.
You don’t like the EU.
You like BREXIT, but this time you want UK legislation to both align with EU standards and comply with the EU REACH directive and also apply throughout the UK?
If you do get the various devolved parliaments disbanded, do you think that Scotland would have to allow access to air guns without a license again or should their license requirements be rolled out across the rest of the UK?
You might want to give a bit of thought to the situation re handguns in NI while you’re at it.

My suggestion would be to stick with the single issue of alignment between the UK and EU lead ammunition proposals.
I would also suggest that the best body to represent you is the one with most experience in the area, namely BASC.

There really is no other option.

 

[Mickeydredd]

Let us know if you get an answer, but I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you my friend

Had one

 

[Dunwaters]

Alignment with the EU should be a given.
(1). Its already policy where possible.
(2). The strategic argument is exactly the same for small arms projectile production, whether they are produced in the UK or imported from Europe.

All you need now is a representative body to present the case on your behalf.

 

[Chris Richardson]

Had one

And the answer ?

 

[enfieldspares]

It appears that you have several intractable problems.
You don’t like BASC.
You don’t like the devolution of power within the UK.
You don’t like the EU.
You like BREXIT, but this time you want UK legislation to both align with EU standards and comply with the EU REACH directive and also apply throughout the UK?
If you do get the various devolved parliaments disbanded, do you think that Scotland would have to allow access to air guns without a license again or should their license requirements be rolled out across the rest of the UK?
You might want to give a bit of thought to the situation re handguns in NI while you’re at it.

My suggestion would be to stick with the single issue of alignment between the UK and EU lead ammunition proposals.
I would also suggest that the best body to represent you is the one with most experience in the area, namely BASC.

There really is no other option.

I don't really resemble half of what you claim to be what I like or don't like. Yes I am unhappy with BASC but as for the rest of your ramblings where have I ever stated an opinion on devolution of power in the UK? Or where have I stated that I don't like the EU? Or where have I ever stated that I like Brexit? You seem confused.

 

[kuksmith]

A link to the latest FACE (european representative hunters organisation) on Lead:-

Europe’s Lead Gunshot Restriction Enters Final EU Scrutiny Phase

REACH Committee has approved the European Commission's proposal to restrict lead use..

www.face.eu

Just seen it yesterday - FACE seems to have been much ore active lobbying the EU Commission than anything in this country. When pressed on lobbying their MP, shooting colleagues tend to respond ".. it wont do any good"; some sympathy with that, when I wrote to my (Tory) MP about aligning Shotguns with FAC conditions in January - I got the standard non-committal response in June!!!! At least I know now who NOT to vote for next time. Regrettably I've had similar responses when contacting some of the BSSC organisations, some of whom are quite happy to pat us on the head and tell us to leave it all the the grown-ups: I wonder when they'll get a gong in an Honours List?

 

[Mickeydredd]

And the answer ?

Will probably be announced in due course on the BASC website to its members.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

There was an update in last week's Shooting Times & Country Magazine. All BASC members receive complimentary digital access to Shooting Times & Country Magazine as a core membership benefit. The subscription, which normally costs £74.95 per year, is fully covered by your membership.

BASC partners with Shooting Times to offer members free digital access

BASC has announced a new partnership to give all members complimentary digital access to Shooting Times & Country Magazine.

basc.org.uk

In summary, BASC approached Defra to establish whether it would reconsider its position on current lead ammunition restrictions in England, Scotland and Wales, based on the amendments that were made to the EU REACH proposals. Defra said that there were no grounds to do so. It is important to remember that under UK REACH we were originally faced with an outright ban on lead ammunition. However, significant work by BASC and other organisations has moved us to a position where we have a phased transition period for shotguns; small calibre rifles are excluded from restrictions; target shooting with rifles can continue on ranges that comply with risk management measures; and there is no ban on lead airgun pellets. There are also derogations for athletes.

Lead ammunition restrictions - your questions answered

Read our answers to questions about the planned lead ammunition legislation and what it means for shotgun, rifle and airgun shooters.

basc.org.uk

 

[Chris Richardson]

Will probably be announced in due course on the BASC website to its members.

It was a no wasn’t it

 

[enfieldspares]

In summary, BASC approached Defra to establish whether it would reconsider its position on current lead ammunition restrictions in England, Scotland and Wales, based on the amendments that were made to the EU REACH proposals.

There has, of course, been a change at the top and new ministers are being appointed. They are the "masters" not the civil servants they direct. Might I ask, please, that a new approach be made to the new ministers responsible both in the Commons and in the Lords. Burnham has scrapped the digital ID proposals and may well scrap Lammy's juryless trial threshold being raised. Both the ID proposals and the juryless threshold proposals will have been civil servant led - as with the winter fuel scrapping proposal - so just as a minister can negate them all so could a new ministerial team negate the present UK REACH instrument if persuaded. As my late father said. When you want the tune being played to be changed you talk to the organ grinder. Not to his monkeys,

 

[Liveonce]

There was an update in last week's Shooting Times & Country Magazine. All BASC members receive complimentary digital access to Shooting Times & Country Magazine as a core membership benefit. The subscription, which normally costs £74.95 per year, is fully covered by your membership.

BASC partners with Shooting Times to offer members free digital access

BASC has announced a new partnership to give all members complimentary digital access to Shooting Times & Country Magazine.

basc.org.uk

In summary, BASC approached Defra to establish whether it would reconsider its position on current lead ammunition restrictions in England, Scotland and Wales, based on the amendments that were made to the EU REACH proposals. Defra said that there were no grounds to do so. It is important to remember that under UK REACH we were originally faced with an outright ban on lead ammunition. However, significant work by BASC and other organisations has moved us to a position where we have a phased transition period for shotguns; small calibre rifles are excluded from restrictions; target shooting with rifles can continue on ranges that comply with risk management measures; and there is no ban on lead airgun pellets. There are also derogations for athletes.

Lead ammunition restrictions - your questions answered

Read our answers to questions about the planned lead ammunition legislation and what it means for shotgun, rifle and airgun shooters.

basc.org.uk

And that answer by DEFEA was accepted at face value? Why not actually see if they might be wrong? Take some legal advice from an expert on EU alignment policy after all we now have a complete new PM and Cabinet.
You just won JR may be that could be considered.

This just lay down and take it attitude has got shooting no where over the decades.

 

[B&W FOX]

Can anyone remember which shooting organisation suggested a ban on lead projectiles