Mallard Barn & Jelen. The Way forward?

[barongcw]

Reading both threads like almost 23'000 others I would suggest that readers produce recommendations. That way future unfortunate experiences like these might be avoided.

1 What questions a (foreign) paying visitor should ask of the organisation(person) that he contracts to buy stalking from?

2 What information should a progessional or amateur deer manager who sells stalking against payment make available to his potential clients?

 

[Patrick A]

Sadly with any business transaction unless you have a formal contract then there is bound to be someone who is unhappy or who will try and pull a fast one (client or guide). The only solution I can see would be for the guide/agent to produce a contract which sets out the guide's obligations and terms and what is expected from the client - that is what you get on a pheasant day. I suspect that the legal bill to produce such a contract would be not inconsiderable. The only problem I can see would be how would you legislate for all eventualities? For example the client who declines every shot offered or guide who has deer but due to bad luck can't find them. Sadly the growth in popularity of our hobby/sport has turned meant that it has had to become more financially driven and money is invariably the root cause of most problems......

 

[willie_gunn]

I would suggest that readers produce recommendations. That way future unfortunate experiences like these might be avoided.

Here are some for starters:

1. The client should see the details of the cull plan, by species, in order to get an idea of how many deer are shot over the course of the year
2. The client should see the stalk:shot:kill ratio, by species, in order to get an idea of the success rate per stalk per species
3. The client should see the complete charge structure - cost per outing, per beast (depending upon sex, antler measurement, etc), the cost per missed/wounded beast, any penalties for shooting the wrong sex/species, and the policy, if any, should no deer be seen/shot.
4. The policy should also include the cost for preparing heads, using the estate rifle/ammo, etc.
5. The client should see the stalking methods employed - e.g. Walk and stalk, high seat
6. The client should see any other T's and C's, e.g. the expected time per outing,reimbursement policy for cancelled/postponed outings, cost for witnessed stalks, etc.

willie_gunn

 

[eggy s]

Here are some for starters:

1. The client should see the details of the cull plan, by species, in order to get an idea of how many deer are shot over the course of the year

willie_gunn

Absolutely no way.

 

[www.yorkshireroestalking.]

Here are some for starters:

1. The client should see the details of the cull plan, by species, in order to get an idea of how many deer are shot over the course of the year
2. The client should see the stalk:shot:kill ratio, by species, in order to get an idea of the success rate per stalk per species
3. The client should see the complete charge structure - cost per outing, per beast (depending upon sex, antler measurement, etc), the cost per missed/wounded beast, any penalties for shooting the wrong sex/species, and the policy, if any, should no deer be seen/shot.
4. The policy should also include the cost for preparing heads, using the estate rifle/ammo, etc.
5. The client should see the stalking methods employed - e.g. Walk and stalk, high seat
6. The client should see any other T's and C's, e.g. the expected time per outing,reimbursement policy for cancelled/postponed outings, cost for witnessed stalks, etc.

willie_gunn

Just a thought here, administration of this to the company would possibly put outing fees up, as i have enough to do without all this so would either have to find time or pay someone to update and formulate this. A cost I would look at getting back. As its an extra service we would provide would it be unreasonable for a bussiness to expect it back????
Any other company would so would we. Seeing how we are against the wall (in some peoples eyes) for charging anything its surley a non starter.

 

[eggy s]

Just a thought here, administration of this to the company would possibly put outing fees up, as i have enough to do without all this so would either have to find time or pay someone to update and formulate this. A cost I would look at getting back. As its an extra service we would provide would it be unreasonable for a bussiness to expect it back????
Any other company would so would we. Seeing how we are against the wall (in some peoples eyes) for charging anything its surley a non starter.

Personally I don't see why it should. I have a document that contains 95% of that info. When someone books they get emailed that document, payment of their deposit is confirmation they accept the T&C's. The other 5% of the info it does not contain is none of their business, like cull records etc.

 

[www.yorkshireroestalking.]

Personally I don't see why it should. I have a document that contains 95% of that info. When someone books they get emailed that document, payment of their deposit is confirmation they accept the T&C's. The other 5% of the info it does not contain is none of their business, like cull records etc.

well like i said it was just a thought, thanks for sharing. YDS

 

[Grandhubert]

The main thing is being straight down the line with people, in all matters, in writing.

I see no need to get lawyers involved and no need to submit a business plan to each prospective booking.

 

[timbrayford]

Reading both threads like almost 23'000 others I would suggest that readers produce recommendations. That way future unfortunate experiences like these might be avoided.

1 What questions a (foreign) paying visitor should ask of the organisation(person) that he contracts to buy stalking from?

2 What information should a progessional or amateur deer manager who sells stalking against payment make available to his potential clients?

I agree with what you say. IMO whatever the grievance I think that this is best taken up with the service provider first and perhaps trading standards second if necessary. If I do have a concern about both these threads it is that both posters appear to have joined the site with the purpose of complaining rather than the positive exchange of information to mutual benefit that many of us hope to do. So Bert & Alvaro , perhaps you will both care to enlighten us with the benefit of your more successful stalking experiences.atb Tim

 

[stav]

or do what i did and read lots of storys,and write up and for me john robinson stood out and was quite close, and guess what was not disappointed. what i,m saying is do your research,not hard with forums like this.just my 2 pence worth
stav

 

[kingstonandy]

I don't think it needs to be complicated. When a stalker emails me a load of T&Cs and other gumph I find it off-putting.
Written complaints procedures are for McDonalds. I expect paid by the day stalking to be an arrangement between gentlemen.

No-one has ever asked me to pay in full up front for UK stalking, that would sound alarm bells with me. I often ask for a small deposit up front to secure my professional services and I'm quite happy for stalkers to do the same.
Maybe I'm lucky but I've stalked with pro's all over the place and never been dissatisfied enough to want to withhold any payment, but as long as the cash is still in my pocket the option is available.

 

[caorach]

Maybe we could hold a list of companies or people with which people off this site have had a positive experience?

Perhaps this could be done like a poll - i.e. the name of the company could be the title of the thread and then there could be a poll to vote either positive or negative. This would allow us to see how everyone rates and would also allow a company to cope with the person who has one bad experience and who signs up here to complain as a good company would find that the positive votes would outnumber the negatives by a long way.

If you were looking to book stalking it would be a simple matter to search on the company name to see what the poll results were looking like. Equally if you had a positive, or negative, experience you could search on the company name and vote in the poll.

 

[Grandhubert]

Thing is mate, one man with a grudge and a proxy server could grind his axe very successfully with that method.

The stalk report section is pretty good in that regard. If I wanted to shoot a Roe near me for example, I would ring up IanF.

 

[mereside]

i agree with grandhuert , one person with a grudge can ruin someones reputation very easy on the internet now. the best way to find out who is reputable is easy you just go to the stalking oppertunitys and read the reports on how good the stalking was with each outfit. not difficult .
also asking questions in advance to the relevent person also goes along way. Its still not clear whos actually done anything wrong on these past threads and people now want to cause all sorts of trouble that isnt really there if questions are asked in advance and you know exactly what you are getting and taking away. it seems there isnt enough stalking done on here as people just want to moan and cause bother as of late,atb wayne

 

[Conor1]

I am a paying recreational stalker both here and abroad.

For the last three years, I have been fortunate enough to meet a stalker that even the Good Lord himself, would be honoured to spend a day with. The introduction was obtained from a sister in law; I will be forever in her debt.

Prior to this relationship, it was a case of hit or miss, no pun intended, with regards to the quality of the day out. I dont judge a day on numbers shot, but rather on my relationship with the stalker, and observing him ply his trade, knowing his land and his beats. I have met some truly wonderful people, whilst stalking, but I would not want to go stalking with them again; rather I would prefer to go to the pub with them! Sad but true! I have spent fortunes on fruitless missions...............sometimes it was a case of lack of quality, other times, it was a lack of quantity, and sometimes it was a clear case of the stalker having over shot his land, such that that the only deer to pass through it was Rudolf on Christmas Night. Sometimes it was a case of just "no communication" Nevertheless I still enjoyed each stalk as the anticipation is what counts. In the cold light of day, perhaps several grand out of pocket, with little to show for it, reality sets in. There are only a few people that I trust. Fortunately on this forum, I have met the best part of a dozen or so people that I would stalk with any day of the week; and a few that I would never stalk with again............

I am not a trophy hunter. I love stalking (please, no high seats...not my thing!) However I always like to know the numbers; both quality and quantity. I go prepared, carrying sufficient cash to cover all possibilities. The idea of stalking and then being told that a particular beast is out of my price range does not sit well. If it`s a cull mission and medal head presents itself as the only shot of the day, I would like the stalker to tell me "he`s off the menu because he is too healthy as opposed to he`s available but at a trophy price" Some time ago, I was stalking stags and we came across an "absolute beast" on the hill. That is, he was 15 points plus with a neck as big as a bull but little else; in other words he was rutted out! The antlers were spectacular but try as I might to bid for the beast, the stalker said "no way". The stalk would have been easy and it would have been trophy hunting hunting as opposed to slective culling. This man I will stalk with as long as my legs will permit, the wife will allow me and the bank can afford it...............

In summary, there are a number of people on here offering stalking services. Do you research, tread carefully and enjoy the day out. And, be safe

 

[bobt]

I was so impressed with YDS the other week, I forgot to sign the cheque.

will sort it out when I see you this week John.

 

[User00003]

Personally I don't see why it should. I have a document that contains 95% of that info. When someone books they get emailed that document, payment of their deposit is confirmation they accept the T&C's. The other 5% of the info it does not contain is none of their business, like cull records etc.

sorry mate, why is it none of their business, who cares of they now what your cull rates are? at least it allows them to make a judgement call as to whether there are enough game taken for them to pay outings with you...also information such as average number of deer per person per outing would be re-assuring to prospective customers.

 

[User00003]

on another note, with the number of professional stalkers/gamekeepers here, and recreational/paying type stalkers, it should be feasible to put together a T&C document that would set the industry standard and be stress-tested to suit all parties..it would take a little 'putting heads together' work though.

 

[eggy s]

sorry mate, why is it none of their business, who cares of they now what your cull rates are? at least it allows them to make a judgement call as to whether there are enough game taken for them to pay outings with you...also information such as average number of deer per person per outing would be re-assuring to prospective customers.

Our cull records are very detailed, they contain clients names etc.

Our management plan is also very detailed. It contains financial predictions for the year (I have to justify my salary).
For example I know already this year what I am shooting and that will be stuck to.

That information is nothing to do with a client. What is to do with a client is what they are going to shoot/achieve in their stalk. If you over sell your ground then you will get a reputation as not being able to deliver the goods. If you don't and you run a carefully managed set up then you get a reputation as being someone that can produce the goods.

Simples.

If a client as me for some photos of some previously obtained medals then sure I can provide those. But any other details as I have already stated are none of their business.

In business you would not provide a client with your business plan so why should we?

 

[DazT]

How about no deer SEEN - no fee?