clivecleaver
Well-Known Member
yes 30mg.
fits in dogs
- Thread starter clivecleaver
- Start date
Sorry to hear it has epilepsy
But it seems a lot of the polish lines suffer from this
Which is the reason I am so anal when I choose a puppy or stud dog
If I hav a bitch I don't feel is suitable I won't breed from it either
If it is a one off which happens there is nothing you can do
But as you mentioned there is this condition in the breeding line already which is very closely related can only mean one thing
Stop breeding from these lines and help try and stamp out this condition
The gene pool I understand is small but why infect it even more
Sorry if it upsets anyone but c'mon
If you want to breed , then breed from healthy lines atleast
And that goes for all breeds
But it seems a lot of the polish lines suffer from this
Which is the reason I am so anal when I choose a puppy or stud dog
If I hav a bitch I don't feel is suitable I won't breed from it either
If it is a one off which happens there is nothing you can do
But as you mentioned there is this condition in the breeding line already which is very closely related can only mean one thing
Stop breeding from these lines and help try and stamp out this condition
The gene pool I understand is small but why infect it even more
Sorry if it upsets anyone but c'mon
If you want to breed , then breed from healthy lines atleast
And that goes for all breeds
Stone, there is an irony in what you say whether you realise it or not!
This sort of hits the nail on the head with pedigree dogs. They are all tiny gene pools and if we only breed from dogs free from problems traditionally associated with a particular breed, in time we will reduce these characteristic problems. BUT by breeding from a small sub population of an already limited gene pool we will end up with different problems associated the breeds. Maybe there is something to be said for these fashionable cross-breds ('sprocker spaniel' etc).
Stone said:
Stone said:
Stone said:
This sort of hits the nail on the head with pedigree dogs. They are all tiny gene pools and if we only breed from dogs free from problems traditionally associated with a particular breed, in time we will reduce these characteristic problems. BUT by breeding from a small sub population of an already limited gene pool we will end up with different problems associated the breeds. Maybe there is something to be said for these fashionable cross-breds ('sprocker spaniel' etc).
Of course there are
But why breed from a dog that you already know has a fault
And how many generations could it take to breed such a serious condition out of it
As for sprockers
Two breeds of dogs that work differently from each other and a definate size difference between the breeds
My veiws sre You either want a springer or you don't
It is that simple
If you think that by xbreeding a cocker will get you a better line you are a little deluded
Choose the right pup And lines to start with is in my opinion the way forward
Mongrels are not
I suppose it all comes down to your definition of 'better'!
Breeding from a limited sub-population of a small gene pool will get you no-where in the long term. You are only compounding the problem. Taking your example and avoiding epilepsy you will suddenly find you have concentrated another problem by REDUCING THE GENE POOL FURTHER.
What we do need are fresh genes. The ONLY way that will happen is by cross-breeding and adding fresh blood from outside.
I do think mongrels are the future!
Personally I don't care for a second what a pedigree says. What interests me is that the dog in front of me is healthy, free from inherited problems and fit for the purpose the owner wants. Look at the number of dogs that qualified for Crufts and then were rejected at the vet checks.
We need to care less about 'lines' and more about the dogs themselves.
d foxxer
Well-Known Member
i know what its like my little fox terrier is on 90 mg ie 1 and a half tabs twice a day its a nightmare at times because sometimes he is sick not long after and i have to poke thru it to see if the tablets have been chucked up with it if so got give him more and if he goes over the time he will be sick blood tests every 2 months as well amounts to some cash but to me he is worth it my fear is that he will get worse until the epiphen wont work or if it will shorten his life the vet dosent seem to know exactly the epiphen controls it but for how long we dont no i live in hope but constantly worry
Wolverine
Well-Known Member
Now here we go about hybrid vigour,what a load of tosh!
Pedigreed dogs,ie labs are fit and healthy for purpose if health tested,no small gene pool with them cockers or springers whereas BGS is a different matter all together,Stone has it perfectly correct,some of these dogs suffer from epilepsy and he's correct to be anal about breeding dog or bitch,breeding a cocker with a springer,why?
Both do the job they're meant to admirably so why cross breed
Keith Erlandson would be spinning in his grave along with Nash and Greatorex,these guys line bred and had the best dogs ever IMO,nowadays you would not do what they did as you had to take the pups on to 6 months and keep the most promising ones and tap on head to the less promising,taking problems out of the gene pool at the same time
As for Crufts,just don't get me started!!!Half the dog problems were caused by show people!!!Breeding for looks rather than how good a worker or how healthy a dog is!
Wolverine
Well-Known Member
Trouble,I'm not saying there aren't good x breeds,what I'm saying is hybrid vigour is a myth,I know of x breeds dying of various ailments at less than 3 years old,more than just a few as well
I'd agree looks count for nothing and workability is what should be bred for but health is as important if not more so,workability was always bred into labs,springers and cockers in the past,they could've been the ugliest dogs on the planet but they were workers and healthy,that's what counted.
Line breeding when done correctly can vastly improve a breed but it can also multiply that breeds faults,working faults as well as health faults.
No dog with epilepsy should ever be bred from.
BGS in this country have been bred unscrupously from people who know no better and who are out to make £££££,which I feel has to a certain extent ruined the breed in the UK.
Faults from bred dogs have been exaggerated,epilepsy and temperament are both problems within the UK,more knowledge of the breed to start with would've helped the dogs and the owners,looks as you and I say count for nothing but line up a few BGS in the UK and you'll have an array of dogs of different shapes and sizes that should never have happened as they're not near breed standard,dogs of different breeds should look like those breeds,no?
I'd agree looks count for nothing and workability is what should be bred for but health is as important if not more so,workability was always bred into labs,springers and cockers in the past,they could've been the ugliest dogs on the planet but they were workers and healthy,that's what counted.
Line breeding when done correctly can vastly improve a breed but it can also multiply that breeds faults,working faults as well as health faults.
No dog with epilepsy should ever be bred from.
BGS in this country have been bred unscrupously from people who know no better and who are out to make £££££,which I feel has to a certain extent ruined the breed in the UK.
Faults from bred dogs have been exaggerated,epilepsy and temperament are both problems within the UK,more knowledge of the breed to start with would've helped the dogs and the owners,looks as you and I say count for nothing but line up a few BGS in the UK and you'll have an array of dogs of different shapes and sizes that should never have happened as they're not near breed standard,dogs of different breeds should look like those breeds,no?
Let's address the " better " issue
Wot is a line of dogs where you can trace their parentage compared to a line you can not
Wot is a line of xbreeds compared to a line of properly bred pedigree dogs
Wot is better a line of dogs that can live a healthy life or a line of dogs where a few don't quite make the grade
But we do have prednisolone, azathioprine and cyclophosphamide just in case
But then if you need to treat with such you already know the outcome
Now let's look at not worrying about researching a pedigree
You say not bother as if the dog or bitch infront is fit healthy and free from inherent traits
Then Go for it
Only a fool would advocate such a method
As how many would be carriers and not affected
Where does epilepsy fit into the equation as the OP's dog is now 3 and a half
Easily could of studded it out or bred from it before it was diagnosed
Not to mention
IMTP
which is more prevalent in dogs that appear more susceptible to AIHA
I take it you would not test for this either
Them there is the issue of
Immune-mediated Polyarthitis
In pedigree dogs this can be eventually overcome if breeders were not so money orientated
In mongrels it will never
As for Crufts
That is a show line not a working line
Big difference in breed standards and how to achieve It
Sorry
But getting it wrong costs money and we are talking thousands not hundreds
clivecleaver
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be treating him if pet plan didn't cover the medication etc, he has to earn his keep like my other dogs and it is a very costly game.
If you look at his breeding i think your see one of the lines is one of the original in the country and a lot of members on here have dogs from the same line, i thought i had have chosen a dog from a good line free from 'problems' however people will not admit to conditions like this as they wouldn't be able to sell the pups!
i have no regrets in buying him as he is a good worker and has a brilliant temperament just a shame as its not nice for him or the family.
If you look at his breeding i think your see one of the lines is one of the original in the country and a lot of members on here have dogs from the same line, i thought i had have chosen a dog from a good line free from 'problems' however people will not admit to conditions like this as they wouldn't be able to sell the pups!
i have no regrets in buying him as he is a good worker and has a brilliant temperament just a shame as its not nice for him or the family.
This is the most confusing of all
How can you care about a dog if you don't know the lines it has come from
Basic dog care
Know the lines, know the breeding and know what the breed defects are
From there you can go forward
As CNM did not get a foothold by carefull breeding did it
Clive
Must not forget you are the OP and you asked the question
Not sure if there is a fault on your part
But you are now paying for it
I know that feeling well which is why I am so anal in what I choose and the reasons why
But you hav highlighted an area that is prevalent in the breed lines in the UK
I do hope you are lucky and can control it
As D foxer has a greater challenge he has to probably make a decision in the near future
Not a position I like to be in
Wish you both well in your future for your dogs
The problem is simple , over breeding , the reason for that is money , if your not breeding for money dont charge so much for pups just breed as and when you need replacement stock , breed from your best workers as thats what counts and give the other pups to friends .
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