DSC2 - Wild vs. Park Debate
- Thread starter rarms
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It's all about jealousy, ........ and the desire by a small minority to discredit professional companies.
I am grateful that - once again - the 'bandwagoners' have gained us an immense amount of coverage for our DSCL2i, which is simply an offer to those who feel they are experienced enough, to condense their three culls in only two days. It is NOT offering a short-cut through this important process. It is NOT ripping off the system. It is NOT devaluing the standard. It is NOT guaranteeing that clients will achieve the standards required by DMQ (thats down to the clients themselves).
However, it IS a fair offer at reasonable cost. What's all the fuss about??
It seems the fuss is a result of a handful of people who resent companies like ours getting off our backsides - providing a fair opportunity for clients who wish to get on and obtain their DSCL2 in a shorter time - and making part of a living from it!!! Mine, and my family's living comes from the services our company offers to the wild, park and farmed deer sectors.
It would be nice to 'play' at it whilst my living came from something else such as a driving school - but nope, some of us provide training and deer management as a job.
My sincere thanks to those who have already taken up this excellent opportunity, and those who have supported Jelen on this site.
To the others - understand that we make a living from offering DSCL2i, and many other training opportunities and services to a highly professional standard, at reasonable price ................... GET OVER IT GUYS!!!!!!
Regards,
csl
Administrator
If it is within the rules laid down by DMQ and the AW's and Assessors are performing their roles then what is there to complain about? The only thing I can see is that you might be a bit miffed if, like me, you had to drag a witness around in the mud for 10 stalks in the cold and wet in order to achieve your 3 ICR's and you feel someone else got an easier ride but that's not the training companies' fault. Take it up with DMQ if you feel aggrieved.
Personally I don't feel aggrieved, I felt a sense of accomplishment when I'd done it, probably moreso than if it had come easier over 2 days admittedy, but I don't begrudge anyone doing it in two days if the rules and standards as set by DMQ are being maintained.
If you feel the test should be more taxing, should have a minimum level of experience, be wild deer only etc, then that is an issue to address to DMQ but I don't think its right to make accusations of exploiting the system to people offering services which are within the rules and delivering the required standard as it stands.
Alex
Personally I don't feel aggrieved, I felt a sense of accomplishment when I'd done it, probably moreso than if it had come easier over 2 days admittedy, but I don't begrudge anyone doing it in two days if the rules and standards as set by DMQ are being maintained.
If you feel the test should be more taxing, should have a minimum level of experience, be wild deer only etc, then that is an issue to address to DMQ but I don't think its right to make accusations of exploiting the system to people offering services which are within the rules and delivering the required standard as it stands.
Alex
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Gazza
Well-Known Member
Not a new concept by any means. Several years ago a mate flew down to a company in Devon (I think it was), 3 days later was back with a completed portfolio this after having been ripped of by a good few AWs who had taken him to well shot ground and charged him all sorts of cash for time/expences etc and he never even saw a deer.
6pointer
Well-Known Member
Alex you are bang on the button there and that is why i put up the DMQ statement and also there email. Mike making my living teaching driving is what i want to do i also like the fact that in doing so the Test has a set standard and all must reach that standard none of the tests are ever done in a car park they are all out on our roads. So have a dig if you like but its an assessment that is totally messed up there is no continuity in it what so ever. Every one talk about the assessors they can only react to what is written down they have no direct link with the candidate that bit is left to the AW and him alone.
As an AW i am against the use of Canned animals to obtain an award weather this is done by a pro company or as a favour.
As an AW i am against the use of Canned animals to obtain an award weather this is done by a pro company or as a favour.
Level2 criteria, able to shoot straight. Shoot a deer. Sort it for the food chain. The luck/level changes with experience. The more you practice the luckier you get. The aw has the responsibility to see that the candidate can get close enought but three lucky strikes gets you your ticket. Whether park or prairie makes little difference. You need to handle three deer in the correct manner. Answer the questions. You might never have another successful stalk but you have proved if you do you know how to deal with it. that is the purpose of l2. That is the competence you have to prove. It is for amateur stalkers not the pros where field craft is king. If they brought that in how many would achieve it. Jim
I took my test over 20 years ago, it was a Wednesday afternoon the streets were deserted I hardly saw another car on the road. My sister took hers on a Friday the roads were busy the schools were coming out, the factories were coming out. My point is the test wasn't equal so is my pass of lesser value because the roads were quiet.
6pointer
Well-Known Member
Casper you could have took your test at the same time as your sister. The time you sit the test is up to you.
Like i said i dont believe and it is a personel opinion that shooting canned deer should get you an award such as the DMQ 2 WILD DEER AWARD.That said there might be a place in the deer sector for a park farm culling award.
Like i said i dont believe and it is a personel opinion that shooting canned deer should get you an award such as the DMQ 2 WILD DEER AWARD.That said there might be a place in the deer sector for a park farm culling award.
)
stalkinginengland
Well-Known Member
Is it devalued Photo by 6pointer from other thread.
Do you think the award of DMQ 2 would be of less value if you were to shoot canned deer to gain this award.Or do you feel that it dose not matter and any three deer should do.
This is not a deer park, its a pen.
This is a deer parkView attachment 16713
And I can tell you they do not give themselves up and are very hard to stalk as you would be if several hundred of your friends had been shot earlier this season.
Try crossing that open ground and then tell us how easy it is.
Mark
PS I have.
This is not a deer park, its a pen.
This is a deer parkView attachment 16713
And I can tell you they do not give themselves up and are very hard to stalk as you would be if several hundred of your friends had been shot earlier this season.
Try crossing that open ground and then tell us how easy it is.
Mark
PS I have.
stalkinginengland
Well-Known Member
Yes point taken but they do intensive courses where you are taught to drive in a week and then put in for your test. I failed my first test. I drove in all sorts of traffic for 2 years will taking lessons. Others pass in the first week of being 17 years old by taking an intensive course and paying for that with a very high pass rate. Now that should not be allowed for the sake of all road uses but it is.
Its horses for courses.
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Vipa
Well-Known Member
THE overriding fact here is that DMQ is a test of competency, NOT experience. If someone can show a witness 3 well executed culls done to best practice and thus satisfying the requirements of the DMQ, it doesn't matter if it's done in a day or 3 years. The fact remains that the candidate fulfilled the requirements set out by DMQ Ltd!
If you chaps wan't some kind of advanced DMQ so that you don't feel quite so threatened up on your pedastals (yes.... that what it looks like from the outside!!) then approach DMQ and ask them to look into it for you but please, don't then start bitching and moaning that that is what the minimum qualification should be. As soon as you start to feel 'un-superior' again when people start to gain the qualification you will start to demand something more!
Some of us have real lives away from stalking, with real young families to look after, real partners to appease and real businesses to run/jobs to hold down. Unless you have stalking on your doorstep or your best mate's an AW with land it is VERY difficult, VERY time consuming and VERY costly for (probably) most of us to get through DSC2 and let's face it, the only reason you are given 3 years to complete it is because DMQ Ltd know how unlikely it is to have a stalker, an AW and a shootable deer all in the same place at the same time. The Forestry commission make it even more difficult by demanding L2 is achieved by syndicate members in a year or you are suspended from shooting FC land!
I applaud Jelen for thinking (ever so slightly) outside the box and it is certainly something I would consider if only from a financial & logistical viepoint. As it happens, I can't wait until autumn to get started on my portfolio so am going south for a week to make the acquaintence of a few munty's! I would like to think the outcome of that week will be a hat-trick of ICRs but 1 or 2 will be a start!
If you chaps wan't some kind of advanced DMQ so that you don't feel quite so threatened up on your pedastals (yes.... that what it looks like from the outside!!) then approach DMQ and ask them to look into it for you but please, don't then start bitching and moaning that that is what the minimum qualification should be. As soon as you start to feel 'un-superior' again when people start to gain the qualification you will start to demand something more!
Some of us have real lives away from stalking, with real young families to look after, real partners to appease and real businesses to run/jobs to hold down. Unless you have stalking on your doorstep or your best mate's an AW with land it is VERY difficult, VERY time consuming and VERY costly for (probably) most of us to get through DSC2 and let's face it, the only reason you are given 3 years to complete it is because DMQ Ltd know how unlikely it is to have a stalker, an AW and a shootable deer all in the same place at the same time. The Forestry commission make it even more difficult by demanding L2 is achieved by syndicate members in a year or you are suspended from shooting FC land!
I applaud Jelen for thinking (ever so slightly) outside the box and it is certainly something I would consider if only from a financial & logistical viepoint. As it happens, I can't wait until autumn to get started on my portfolio so am going south for a week to make the acquaintence of a few munty's! I would like to think the outcome of that week will be a hat-trick of ICRs but 1 or 2 will be a start!
Perhaps it is worth the nay sayers going on an outing in a park to see what it's all about.
I've been on a park cull, it's not stalking but it's not easy and it certainly requires a degree of patience, cool headedness in selecting the right animal and waiting for the shot.
For me it was about getting experience from people who did this for a living, I learnt a lot so was worth it as far as I'm concerned.
I've been on a park cull, it's not stalking but it's not easy and it certainly requires a degree of patience, cool headedness in selecting the right animal and waiting for the shot.
For me it was about getting experience from people who did this for a living, I learnt a lot so was worth it as far as I'm concerned.
al4x1
Well-Known Member
snap I did it to gain experience before doing DSC1 and it did what I wanted plenty of practice in a short period but the shooting I think was harder than in the so called wild.
Personally i'd question if DSC 1 is enough to equip you to just go out and cull deer as there is little on the practical side and you do only learn by doing how well and whether to best practice is another matter, This sort of thread brings out all the types who like to keep stalking exclusive and put barriers up to new entrants. The simple fact is its not rocket science and you are probably better doing DSC2 sooner rather than later before you've collected too many bad habits, one thing I will say is in this case it is in Jelens interest to get you through and from experience they will work out if you are lacking in an area and make sure you learn it and that will be to best practice.
Orion
Well-Known Member
Isn't the whole idea of the Deer Stalking Certificate L2 that the candidate should demonstrate competence and knowledge to the AW and not be tutored through the stalking, identification, shot, etc. etc. ? I'm sure I've read on here about AWs sending candidates on their way for the day if they fail aspects of the process in a major way.
Also, how does park culling sit with this requirement from the DMQ, (in relation to deer shot from high seats but could equally apply to shots taken from prepared positions in a park); "The candidate will have to stalk to within range of a deer on another occasion for Element 1"
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