The 'Flyer' effect from 1st bullet when zeroing

BRACES of Bristol - Sauer 100 XTA Stainless Package
Mentioned this elsewhere but having had a near barrel ruining experience in my treasured Anschutz 22 Hornet some years ago there is not a rifle I will now return to the cabinet without at least pushing through several patches with a barrel conditioner. This to remove both powder residue and dampness.

Fortunately it is only the 22LR’s that do not shoot perfectly to point of aim after such treatment but one shot into the ground (not your foot!) before setting off is no big deal with subsonic ammo and silencer fitted.

Cheers

K
 
I always clean after every use, I use the wipeout foam though I beleive there is a liquid format available. It cleans all the excess copper and all powder residue and leaves a highly protective coating to prevent rust. The point of impact never changes.

I believe that the reason the first shot pulled is often a psychological one as we often aren't fully prepared both mentally and physically, and then we get into the swing of it, on game you are normally focused 100%.
 
Powder residues are hygroscopic and like many I always clean after each outing even if only one shot has been fired and leave a light oil coating in the barrel. Before I go out I then run through with alcohol and voila - no flyers. Meths works but leaves a little residue.
 
wildfowler.250 said:
Interesting reading. Does anyone not bother to clean their CF's? I don't clean the rimfires but try and clean the bigger rifles every 40 shots. Does it actually damage the rifle to leave it 'dirty'?


i tend to fire a shot and take a good couple of minutes before firing the second. Doesn't completely cool the barrel down but at least it doesn't hear up excessively.
Click to expand...

I think it may also depend on the amount of use a rifle gets, I don't clean mine on a regular basis only when accuracy drops off or on a really foul day and water might have got into the barrel.


Outside gets a rub over with an oily rag and have anti moisture satchets in cabinet.

Seems to work OK have a rifle thats almost thirty years old and has been treated this way all the time that I have had it, it has had many more shots through it that you would normally expect in the life of a barrel and it still shoots to P.O.A.,
 
I think there is a middle ground between the clean every time and never, I use a bore snake with a quick shot of vp 90 before it and that gets most of the powder residue and any moisture out. Being simple and fast it means I actually do it bearing in mind its out 3 times a week at least, then it gets a proper clean every 50 shots or so sometimes more. I know to the eye it looks clean and still shoots the next bullet spot on.
 
some great dicussion on this thread.
amazed at the different points and approaches to barrel cleaning and how it might affect bullet accuracy.
so cud someone recommend product names and where they cud be bought online.
Thanks
 
a mate of mine has a howa 270, he has had it for about 5 years. that gun will shoot very tight groups, i asked him do you clean it ;never cleaned it, sure the next shot cleans it.:shock:
 
Like stalker.308 I live in an old farm house which can be damp when the weather is particularly wet. I have felt that same sinking feeling when peering down the barrel revealed a blemish. I have always taken great care to keep my cabinets dry and have still found rust both on the surface and in the barrel Consequently I take great care to protect my guns both inside and out My regime is to wipe down if wet and then leave to warm up to house temperature. I then thoroughly dry if necessary and wipe all over with oily or treated cloth. I also use my rifles weekly and like to thoroughly clean my barrels with copper solvent every 30 - 40 shots before there is any loss of accuracy. I always use a bore snake after every outing if I have taken a shot and then use rod and dry patch to ensure all powder residue is removed. If I haven't shot then I just use rod and dry patch to ensure the barrel is dry. If I am using the rifle weekly I dont oil the bore but if not I always push an oily patch down the barrel before putting the rifle away. I always rod and dry patch before use to ensure there is no oil left in bore. My first shot is always bang on. I have never found cleaning any of my guns a hardship :).

Andy.
 
If any of my guns go out of the house, they get cleaned when they come back - shot or not!

Similar to others though, I allow my guns to warm up to house temperature before they get put away, and the safe is next to a heating pipe, so no real problems there.
 
andy said:
Like stalker.308 I live in an old farm house which can be damp when the weather is particularly wet. I have felt that same sinking feeling when peering down the barrel revealed a blemish. I have always taken great care to keep my cabinets dry and have still found rust both on the surface and in the barrel Consequently I take great care to protect my guns both inside and out My regime is to wipe down if wet and then leave to warm up to house temperature. I then thoroughly dry if necessary and wipe all over with oily or treated cloth. I also use my rifles weekly and like to thoroughly clean my barrels with copper solvent every 30 - 40 shots before there is any loss of accuracy. I always use a bore snake after every outing if I have taken a shot and then use rod and dry patch to ensure all powder residue is removed. If I haven't shot then I just use rod and dry patch to ensure the barrel is dry. If I am using the rifle weekly I dont oil the bore but if not I always push an oily patch down the barrel before putting the rifle away. I always rod and dry patch before use to ensure there is no oil left in bore. My first shot is always bang on. I have never found cleaning any of my guns a hardship :).

Andy.
Click to expand...

​:thumb: :tiphat:
 
I'd be interested in chrono evidence from rifles shot with a cold bore, clean cold bore and a fouled dirty bore.
To my mind the state of the bore surface is totally different when clean or fouled, so how can the first shot down a CCB be the same as the rest of the group that fly down a fouled bore?

It may well have something to do with the bullets leaving at either end of the barrel whip in the same way as you get that sweet spot with OCW/Ladder test reloads - there could well be a wide sweet spot of barrel whip timing where clean cold bore shots are only just at the start of the whip, while fouled bore shots are fractions of a second later but still in that vital 'end of whip' stage where the accuracy/sweet spot resides.

Now that would be an interesting research project with some expensive chrono's and chamber pressure testing stuff!


As for cleaning, I'm not so sure the barrel is completely 'back to bare metal' clean when many people say they always clean but never get those fliers - how can it be? The bore is so cram packed with crud, that takes ages to clean out, yet shots 1 and 2 are no different?! Hmm..! :suss:

I'd love to see some really indepth and scientific analysis to get down to what is actually happening here...
 
SaltLick said:
I'd be interested in chrono evidence from rifles shot with a cold bore, clean cold bore and a fouled dirty bore.....
Click to expand...

One swallow does not make a summer, but when I chrono'd my previous 260 Rem barrel (Krieger) the cold bore shots were slower in my rifle than the subsequent shots. However, I read an article somewhere that suggested that it was likely that the cold bore shot would go faster. Clearly as in all these discussions, knowing what your own kit does (when the pressure is on) is the important thing.

The only point I would add, is that at stalking ranges my cold bore shot and subsequent two shots will all be acceptable at 100yds, however on a range at 400+yds, the first two shots I fire can't be counted on.

​Regards JCS
 
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Interesting point - I can imagine that bore fouling would act as a more slippery surface for the bullet than just bare steel on copper alone.

Adding moly bullets into the experiment would also be an interesting extra I think..
 
jcampbellsmith said:
Sean.
​In my opinion, the consistency between the first cold bore shot and the follow up shot is a crude measure of the quality of your kit. I fired the 260 Rem that Russell Gall put together for me one day. I had a clean barrel and fired two shots, the second shot just opened up the hole the first shot made very slightly. I've never achieved that kind of result with a factory rifle. I expect my rifles to put shots 1,2 and 3 within half an inch of the intended point of impact at 100yds and whenever possible, I will be looking to take more than one shot.
Regards JCS
Click to expand...
Try a Tikka T3, took mine of the shelf and it's shot any factory ammo i put through it like this, and that includes from 58 V-max -100g softpoints, i've tried Norma, RWS, Hornady, Winchester, Federal and even PPU, shoots straight from cold/clean but does open up to 1" 1/4 if i put 7 or 8 rapid shots through it but then it is a hunter so has a sporting barrel.
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