The people's republic of Scotland

[private fraser]

Salmond is preaching to 2 million people at the low end of the socio-economic scale who are simply not able to see and understand the facts of his disgraceful sales pitch.

Spot on.
Wait till those folk find that their benefits don't get switched back on or increased or whatever it is that they have been promised.
I almost hope it's a Yes so I can watch the sh*tstorm.
Almost

 

[private fraser]

Anyone from the Yes side care to comment on the above.?
I am honestly trying to see what you think is going to happen re Yes...then what?

Pse have a look at Notsharps links above....comments welcome.
It's a debate not a slanging match... hopefully.

Oh dear,no takers to my previous post.
So much for engaging in debate.

Page 42 post # 416
Come on now dinner be feart, ah'm no gonnae throw eggs at ye

 

[Scots_stalker]

Glad to see you guys will be as happy as me if we leave

 

[mark s]

If they vote yes, I hope its done quickly! No doubt we will have to pay for it all?

 

[urx]

the problem is your not smart enough to know how the real world works. Where is that tax now? what is going to pay for in king salmons new country.

It's truly sad you beieve what you spout.

The yes vote stands for:

Damaging and blocking the UK recovery from recession
Leaving the UK
Gambling on joining the EU or going bust
Giving up the pound to become a slave to the Euro if the EU will have us
Tens of thousands of job losses
Billions of losses as Industry packs up and buggers off elsewhere
Giving a radical idiot the power to destroy a fine proud country

Salmond is preaching to 2 million people at the low end of the socio-economic scale who are simply not able to see and understand the facts of his disgraceful sales pitch.

If i was cameron I'd have shut this idiot down a long time ago.

what he said
cant believe people are buying into the wishes promises and economical truths spouted by the fishy ones

 

[Laurie]

Glad to see you guys will be as happy as me if we leave

Frankly south of the border, most people really don't care much one way or the other. Given a say, they'd recommend staying as one country, but unless they have Scots relatives or friends, would say - Well, it's their choice but it doesn't affect us.

And ... they're 100% WRONG. If there's a 'yes' vote, the damage to all of the present UK starts within minutes of Smirkin' Eck being filmed greeting it. Within
hours or days, the pound will take a HUGE hit - and it won't recover for a long time. All UK company shares will take a huge hit too, especially financial ones. The cost of money to everybody in Scotland, NI, England, Wales will rise. Investment will slow or stop - there will be massive uncertainty and loss of confidence.

Within a short period of time, there will be adverse effects on the 58 or 59M UK citizens who don't live in Scotland, who were never consulted, never given a vote. Mortgages will cost more, the cost of living will increase, firms will start to retrench. I agree with Finch 100% about the Westminster elite's attitude - panic, suddenly the unthinkable looms, and sorry that's not about the sweet 'sadness of parting', more a furious English, Welsh et al electorate will want their hide.

Now, given your attitude on this forum, you'll likely say 'tough' or even 'it's your own fault' as Finch rightly says there's this constant expression of victimisation and being put-upon from north of the border from a certain part of its body politic and general population - not all, but a lot of both lots. Anyway, it's not going to be your problem as you stroll off into the sunny uplands of a the inevitable honeymoon of a post-independence vote Scotland - my, that is going to be the MOTHER OF ALL ELECTORAL GIVE-WAYS AND BRIBES that New Scottish Labour and the SNP are going to try to outdo each other in ... until the chickens come home to roost aka the bills dropping through the letterbox.

Actually, it is going to be your problem, not only when the sunny uplands turn into Glencoe in a bad November day, but when the 59 other million people in the present United Kingdom start to lose their jobs and houses and pay more taxes, and see their investments and pensions lose money. They are going to be furious and they're going to tell ... not ask politely, but DEMAND of their MPs and government whether Labour, Tory, or Coalition ... to give their now divorced neighbours not an inch in the divorce settlement, not a single good turn, favour or whatever.

Hey, it'll be fun being the cheeky kid, a Cheuchter Bart Simpson if you like, who discovers it's not an impotent Principal Skinner you've just made hugely angry or even Groundsman Willie, but a 600lb gorilla with a combined hangover and real bad toothache. If you're successful in your campaign, enjoy the post-vote honeymoon while it lasts - the neighbours are going to turn very nasty.

 

[wivenhoe65]

Look unless you actually live in Scotland only then can you begin to understand the true feelings up here. Not what the media dishes out to suit.
I did live in Scotland - a long time ago , but there were faint traces of what i see now - the 600 yr old grudge



It is fair to say that Salmond is not particularly well liked but people forget that is not a vote for him or the SNP it is a vote for Independence and to rid ourselves of Westminster making decisions on us.
So where is your new charismatic nation building leader right now - hiding in the bushes ?


Here is some food for thought.


Scotland is normally Labour controlled (never Tory) but half the time it is a Tory party that is in power so we as a country don't get the party we voted for.
Because we don't vote for Tory, they have very few seats to lose in Scotland and are quite happy to shovel all the dung up here without fear of reprisals. (proven time and time again)
Are you for real ? unless you are reasonably good at predicting the outcomes of general elections (and prepared to switch vote on the principal that you wanted to be on the winning side all the time ) every so often you are going to end up with some party in government who you did not vote for - that applies to anyone / anywhere in the Uk and since it appears that it is the block socialist vote from Scotland that skews the figures so labour get in perhaps more than they should who do you think has got more room to moan , its called democracy , jeez , i don't believe i just had to type that , are you really that dim ?


Labour on the otherhand do get a significant number of seats that without them would struggle to get a majority to govern the UK and for that reason don't want an independent Scotland.
They would take their turn - swing voters like me would make sure of it .


Independence for Scotland would mean a likelyhood of a Tory or Tory coalition for many many years
see above


So there are different agendas for wanting the "Union" to remain
the politicians might have , believe me the general public in England are wondering why you are whining quite so much but if that's what you want to do - get on with it


Another thing us Scots are fed up hearing is how we get more than our share from the coffers. It has ben proven time and again that we as a nation put in more than we get out
not something i hear on any sort of regular basis , perhaps we are fed up with the whining about how hard done by you are , perhaps its got more to do with a national inferiority complex ?


The strange thing is how all of a sudden Scotland is being promised all sorts of new powers if we vote No. That tells you that if we were such a burden, then why are we having the proverbial carrot dangled ?
Funnily enough we have not had a vote on that - yet, and i think you'll find that when / if we do you will get two fingers


I have heard these promises before that don't materialise and i am fed up of Scotland being the guinea pig for the Tories.
Try voting in the odd Tory every now and then and you might have someone with influence on the inside , anyway ,what are you on about exactly ?


I have no doubt Scotland will do just fine on our own. Not so sure the rest of the UK will
So in your la la never land with your golden promises from your jumped up county councillors masquerading as leaders will go sailing off happily into the sunset , you are actually deranged




If we find it tough, we will just invent a solution. After all, us Scots invented just about everything else

What - like all the spirit ,drive and determination as a nation you have shown in the last few decades , don't make me laugh .

 

[rick6point5]

Personally I really love Scotland, went to school there enjoyed some very formative years there with much more freedom than I had when I moved south, and I want to show my daughter some of the breathtakingly beautiful scenery,& places from my childhood, I genuinely do hope the outcome is not going to cause permanent damage or ill feeling, that would be a shame.

 

[49ERIC]

DON.T Think its going to '' good'' Rick , WELL I like the country and people , BUT will not vote for any MP or political party that wants to give away or share the pound, THAT'S for shore

 

[sauer]

im gonna stick my neck out here a bit.... bound to be someone I pi55 off ....nowt new there....

I know that the view from our English brethren side of thing is that the scots hate the English.... and im sure there are ...ive worked with co-scot colleagues that astounded me with the venom ....

but....

we aint all like that.... my wife is English..... I have English colleagues that I prefer over some of my fellow scots colleagues....

ill put my very basic laymans tilt on it

I don't hate the English ..... but we hate, or don't like shall we say, what the government has done to Scotland historically ...im not citing particulars here or getting into slanging matches

I think very basically a lot of folk "up here" just want to get the chance to decide things for ourselves


paul

 

[LuckyEddie]

HMMmm ... you or somebody else said that in a previous post too. Really?

Look at:

Just a wee bit smaller.

The foundations of our (and everybody else's too) physics, astronomy and science is Sir Isaac Newton, and Englishman. Michael Farady, the key man in the development of electricity. The steam engine and railways that allowed the industrial revolution and transformed transport links all originate south of the border. Englishman Charles Babbage is often called 'the father of the computer' (mechanical), but Alan Turing of Cambridge is recognised as devising and building the first modern electronic computer, a key tool in the WW2 Bletchley Park codebreaking operation. Hans Joachim Pabst von Ohain (German) and Sir Frank Whittle (English) both invented viable jet engines separately and nearly simultaneously unaware of each other's work; the world's first commercial jet airliner was developed by De Havilland and a team led by Ronald Bishop an Englishman who'd previously developed the De Havilland Mosquito in WW2. Another key engineer was Roy Chadwick (English) - the Avro Lancaster, prelimianry design of the Vulcan V-bomber....

You forgot to mention the one invention that helped save the day during the Battle of Britain - radar - invented by a laddie fae Brechin!

 

[lister]

even the third reich would have stopped at the wall

 

[McKenzie]

[QUOTE
As for the you don't vote Tory but get them half the time. I could hardly believe my eyes and like Finch was gobsmacked to use a good Yorkie expression. Anybody who votes Tory gets Labour half the time. So, your idea is to get whoever you vote for ALL the time? You want to emigrate to North Korea my friend - that's the kind of 'democracy' they believe in there too.[/QUOTE]

View attachment 46738

 

[private fraser]

Frankly south of the border, most people really don't care much one way or the other. Given a say, they'd recommend staying as one country, but unless they have Scots relatives or friends, would say - Well, it's their choice but it doesn't affect us.

And ... they're 100% WRONG. If there's a 'yes' vote, the damage to all of the present UK starts within minutes of Smirkin' Eck being filmed greeting it. Within
hours or days, the pound will take a HUGE hit - and it won't recover for a long time. All UK company shares will take a huge hit too, especially financial ones. The cost of money to everybody in Scotland, NI, England, Wales will rise. Investment will slow or stop - there will be massive uncertainty and loss of confidence.

Within a short period of time, there will be adverse effects on the 58 or 59M UK citizens who don't live in Scotland, who were never consulted, never given a vote. Mortgages will cost more, the cost of living will increase, firms will start to retrench. I agree with Finch 100% about the Westminster elite's attitude - panic, suddenly the unthinkable looms, and sorry that's not about the sweet 'sadness of parting', more a furious English, Welsh et al electorate will want their hide.

Now, given your attitude on this forum, you'll likely say 'tough' or even 'it's your own fault' as Finch rightly says there's this constant expression of victimisation and being put-upon from north of the border from a certain part of its body politic and general population - not all, but a lot of both lots. Anyway, it's not going to be your problem as you stroll off into the sunny uplands of a the inevitable honeymoon of a post-independence vote Scotland - my, that is going to be the MOTHER OF ALL ELECTORAL GIVE-WAYS AND BRIBES that New Scottish Labour and the SNP are going to try to outdo each other in ... until the chickens come home to roost aka the bills dropping through the letterbox.

Actually, it is going to be your problem, not only when the sunny uplands turn into Glencoe in a bad November day, but when the 59 other million people in the present United Kingdom start to lose their jobs and houses and pay more taxes, and see their investments and pensions lose money. They are going to be furious and they're going to tell ... not ask politely, but DEMAND of their MPs and government whether Labour, Tory, or Coalition ... to give their now divorced neighbours not an inch in the divorce settlement, not a single good turn, favour or whatever.

Hey, it'll be fun being the cheeky kid, a Cheuchter Bart Simpson if you like, who discovers it's not an impotent Principal Skinner you've just made hugely angry or even Groundsman Willie, but a 600lb gorilla with a combined hangover and real bad toothache. If you're successful in your campaign, enjoy the post-vote honeymoon while it lasts - the neighbours are going to turn very nasty.

Totally True.

Post 1945 it was difficult to find anyone who voted for a certain Party.
When the dreams evaporate it could be the same here.

 

[Taff]

I wish the scots well in there vote, but hope that if they become independent , the rest of Britain pull the draw bridge up the next day, just listened to a future minister on BBC talking about the pound, way out of her depth, not a clue how it will work.

 

[murrayb]

Frankly south of the border, most people really don't care much one way or the other. Given a say, they'd recommend staying as one country, but unless they have Scots relatives or friends, would say - Well, it's their choice but it doesn't affect us.

And ... they're 100% WRONG. If there's a 'yes' vote, the damage to all of the present UK starts within minutes of Smirkin' Eck being filmed greeting it. Within
hours or days, the pound will take a HUGE hit - and it won't recover for a long time. All UK company shares will take a huge hit too, especially financial ones. The cost of money to everybody in Scotland, NI, England, Wales will rise. Investment will slow or stop - there will be massive uncertainty and loss of confidence.

Within a short period of time, there will be adverse effects on the 58 or 59M UK citizens who don't live in Scotland, who were never consulted, never given a vote. Mortgages will cost more, the cost of living will increase, firms will start to retrench. I agree with Finch 100% about the Westminster elite's attitude - panic, suddenly the unthinkable looms, and sorry that's not about the sweet 'sadness of parting', more a furious English, Welsh et al electorate will want their hide.

Now, given your attitude on this forum, you'll likely say 'tough' or even 'it's your own fault' as Finch rightly says there's this constant expression of victimisation and being put-upon from north of the border from a certain part of its body politic and general population - not all, but a lot of both lots. Anyway, it's not going to be your problem as you stroll off into the sunny uplands of a the inevitable honeymoon of a post-independence vote Scotland - my, that is going to be the MOTHER OF ALL ELECTORAL GIVE-WAYS AND BRIBES that New Scottish Labour and the SNP are going to try to outdo each other in ... until the chickens come home to roost aka the bills dropping through the letterbox.

Actually, it is going to be your problem, not only when the sunny uplands turn into Glencoe in a bad November day, but when the 59 other million people in the present United Kingdom start to lose their jobs and houses and pay more taxes, and see their investments and pensions lose money. They are going to be furious and they're going to tell ... not ask politely, but DEMAND of their MPs and government whether Labour, Tory, or Coalition ... to give their now divorced neighbours not an inch in the divorce settlement, not a single good turn, favour or whatever.

Hey, it'll be fun being the cheeky kid, a Cheuchter Bart Simpson if you like, who discovers it's not an impotent Principal Skinner you've just made hugely angry or even Groundsman Willie, but a 600lb gorilla with a combined hangover and real bad toothache. If you're successful in your campaign, enjoy the post-vote honeymoon while it lasts - the neighbours are going to turn very nasty.

What he said.....

 

[Chasey]

We live on a tiny island on a planet that modern communication has now shown us is really not that big after all.

For the human race to progress / survive we need to start thinking globally and working together. That means an end to small minded thinking and patriotism that is more akin to rabid support of your local football team than it is to consideration of the future of the world.

We are sadly still in touch with out tribal roots

The resources on our country need to be managed with a vision of what is best for every one and not localised pockets of people. Yes I know that’s not happening as it should and THATS what needs changing.

Splitting this tiny country into smaller and smaller self-governing chunks is not progress.

ATB

Chasey

 

[murrayb]

Not really - not fully autonomous or is that what the English can't comprehend?

Strangely enough we CAN comprehend that. However, within the UK you can't have total autonomy...likewise with a currency union you can't have total autonomy...That seems to be one of the things the Scottish can't comprehend.

 

[NOTSHARP]

I get the feeling that the Nationalists will be laughing at the thought of "England", Westminster, The Tories, etc. suffering a financial s**t storm, in the event of a Yes vote.

Do they realise that independence will not happen on the 19th.September. It will be only after a long and acrimonious divorce settlement.

Until then, Scotland will be on board "Train UK", hence they will not escape the train wreck.

I despair at the " I want a better future for my kids", comments.

How can voting for a blind, deaf, leap into the dark, be the answer?

I cetainly wouldn't take a gamble like that with the future of my kids, and anyone doing so is, in my opinion, both selfish, naive, and downright foolish in the extreme.



I guess that makes me a "NO" voter.





Steve.

 

[Klenchblaize]

We live on a tiny island on a planet that modern communication has now shown us is really not that big after all.

For the human race to progress / survive we need to start thinking globally and working together. That means an end to small minded thinking and patriotism that is more akin to rabid support of your local football team than it is to consideration of the future of the world.

We are sadly still in touch with out tribal roots

The resources on our country need to be managed with a vision of what is best for every one and not localised pockets of people. Yes I know that’s not happening as it should and THATS what needs changing.

Splitting this tiny country into smaller and smaller self-governing chunks is not progress.

ATB

Chasey

Difficult to improve on that other than to add such advance still leaves room for community expression and the wearing of tartan. Surely?

K