The people's republic of Scotland

[Mungo]

Some more sensble posts.

Mungo about the further eduction problem, i would gues there is no guarantee of it continuing under a No vote either? Westminster gives Holyrood its 'pocket money' to spend on free perscriptions free higher education etc i would think with the backlash to come that 'pocket money' will be severly restricted untill scotland can no longer afford free prescriptions or free higher education after all not free elsewhere. So a No vote may not guarantee that

The sad fact is that no one knows what will happen. The SNP has consistly failed to provide any clear information on either policy or execution. Other than constantly reiterating a commitment to keeping it free to Scots (but with no indication of how this will be funded).

For a period, I seriously thought about voting yes - I love the idea of a Scandinavian style, progressive social democracy, free of the corporate distortions of Westminster.

But the total lack of ANY clear planning with regard to university and scientific funding terrified me. Not only is there no planning, there is outright hostility to anyone who wants information.

I extrapolated from this to the government as a whole, and decided that there was simply no way they were capable of delivering a tenth if what they've promised.

It saddens me: there was a tremendous, once in a lifetime opportunity to achieve something truly remarkable, and through laziness, ideological bankruptcy, conceptual inadequacy and sheer incompetence, they have (or will) blown it.

They are simply the wrong people for the job.

 

[widu13]

I'm British (English and have the same surname bar one letter as AS, who looks suspiciously like my grandfather before he died in the 60s!) and have listened to the total spin thrown by both sides. I just can't believe that we won't be better off as one country? How can one country splitting into two with less resources and might be better off? Perhaps we all ought to devoultionise back to the dark ages kingdoms? TBH it seems a bit daft to me, but I was always rubbish at politics.

 

[finnbear270]

Just been reminded of a smaller but similar thing on telly a couple of evenings ago, The historically rich county of Cheshire split into two Unitary I think they call it authorities a couple of years ago, East Cheshire is now virtually bankrupt in the areas of special care, like transport for the disabled etc, & the Chief exec of the East was going on about re unification, because he thought that regional devolution in England proper was going to fix everything.

 

[private fraser]

Economics.

Salmond say's he will reduce corporation tax to "attract" companies and provide jobs.
Sounds like a good idea as he will already have started the process of loads of jobs being lost in the defence, nuclear and finance sectors so he will have a lot of ground to make up before he adds one "net" job to our economy.
Folk will be out of a job making the country money and into a dole queue costing us money. Either that or they will just go away and take their skills and education with them.

One problem though..England has said they are thinking of reducing corporation tax too. The Northern counties of England are doing more than thinking about it.
Maybe they are All scaremongering eh?.

Another thing that companies will consider is wages, terms and conditions. They probably won't be wanting to pay Great wages or give Great T & C...will they?.
So that means we are heading for a low wage poor T & C economy.

Also...Red Jim Sillars has stated that there is a "day of reckoning to come" for the companies that are already here. He is angry that some of them have been "bullying the Scottish people" and is threatening to Nationalise some of them. He also mentioned something about "bending the knee" whatever that means.
It all sounds rather un-attractive to companies looking to come here I would say.

While all this is going on Salmond will still have outgoings for all the normal public expendeture. He will also be minus the corporation tax from the companies that re-located their head office and registration to England (brass plates my ass).
There will also be the cost of setting up new agencies...McTax, McDVLA etc etc. and those project always get done on time and on budget...don't they?.

The cost of living Will go up, lots of business leaders have said so, think they'll miss a chance to put prices up?.
More scaremongering?

Deutsche Bank and lots of others have warned about a crash. Those guys don't really care what way we vote. Or maybe they're all in some sort of conspiracy?

If these guy's are All telling us it's a bad idea does it mean that wee eck, Jim Sillars, John Swinney etc etc are all going to prove them wrong?.

Re europe..Salmond says we will have continuous membership of the eec while Jose Manuel Barrosso, the current President of the eec says we will have to Re-apply.
Who to believe eh?
The Spanish Will block Scotland just carrying forward it's membership If "independence" is voted for. They have Catalonia wanting to split and they will Not allow a precedent to be set by Scotland.
And if we are out..then negotiate (that'll be fun)..then admitted that means we will have to accept the euro within 2 years.
Salmond is in denial about the whole thing BIG time.

It's a leap into the dark and no mistake.

Re nothing guaranteed, that's true but look at it this way.
You've had a car for years,the guarantee has run out, it isn't a porshe but hey it's got you to work etc. for years and years. Not in great style maybe but the point is...it works.
A guy tell you you should sign up for this new great car. It comes with no guarantee, it's yours for life, and...importantly, it's got no track record at all. Just sign up.

Snide remarks and jokes aside guys,it's a big gamble.
A Helluva big gamble.

I don't have the answers but I have solved the conundrum by following my nature.
I'm not a great risk taker and not a gambler at all.
I have voted No.

 

[urx]

The September18.com site was well worth a read.
challenged some of my thoughts and reinforced others.
felt like time well spent

it dint change my mind but I feel better informed about the balance of the case and why I think what I do.
if you haven't read it then please do
then vote your conscience in full awareness of the likely consequences of whichever choice you make.

as to how the country lives with itself either way afterwards...god help us all.

 

[finnbear270]

Buying in lots of milk powder now!, lots of tears over the spilled milk, will be shed both sides of the wall if it's a yes result.

 

[lister]

Because love it though we do there are bigger things in life than deer stalking?

YES airguns

 

[User00035]

Reducing corporation tax to attract inward investment is thoroughly sensible but you can guarantee that should an independent Scotland apply to join the EU one of the many stifling conditions will be that Scottish corporation tax is "brought into line" with the European average. Ireland's attractive corporation tax is a real bone of contention within the EU and the Irish Government are constantly pressurised to increase it. There is absolutely no way that Scotland will be able to join the EU with a level of CT in place that puts more powerful member states at a disadvantage.
Also Sillar's threat to nationalise businesses which displease the SNP is typical left-wing economically illiteracy. You can't simply legislate private companies into public ownership. Well, no unless your name is Robert Mugabe you can't. Except where they are sub-contracting to the state, which is anathema in Scotland, private companies must be bought out or out-competed by a state-owned rival which would require vast investment on a scale that is far beyond the means of Scottish tax payers.
Sillar's preposterous comments are the sort of immature idealist blather you'd expect from a 1970's student activist who'd been having a few too many in the student bar on a Friday afternoon.

 

[tackb]

Frankly there is bigger problems in the world to deal with at the moment and we should be focusing as a united front on dealing with Isis and the Islamic threat to civilisation that threatens ALL of us !

Our union has seen off some serious threats to the civilised world together , how is this going to improve anything ?

Sadly for all of us I think the damage is already done and for what ?

 

[countrryboy]

Is/has there been that much damage caused?? Yes a few folk on here have got a bit heated but nothing unusual that, would be more heated if talking about who/which bred is the best scent hound

I can only speak for my area but there are a few signs about but not much else and life is just going on as normal. I dinae think it will really make that much difference to most sane reasonable folk which ever way it goes. There will be a few bam's on both sides if it goes against them but doubt (hopefully) not be any bother.

Was reading a bit in paper the day about canada's/quebec's last referendum and there was a fair bit of bother after they lost it, infact quite a bit of looting went on (mibee worth causing a bit, my tv's on the blink )
When u think about every thing that happened in Eire when it won its independence it was a full on war, with some fairly nasty things happening over there to the locals, people on both sides were losing there lives. Yet england played rugby/english national anthem at Crooke park a few years ago, which shows how far both nations but esp how forgiving the irish are, after they were masacred inside that very stadium.


As for the EU, it will be fairly complicated but really accepting scotland will not have any bearing on catalonia/spain as part of the Edinburgh agreement was that scotland will be recognised as an independent country, which i doubt will ever be the case with spain recognising catalonia.
As for the euro, by rights we should adopt it, but the mess it is in do u really think there going to push/bully scotland into accepting it??
There is quite a few EU comtires which do not use the euro, even some of the more recently joined ones.
There will also be the complication of in theory every scot working in rUK/europe and every european/uk resident working in scotland needing work visa's to carry on living and working where they are. It would make sense for them to let scotland in quick to ease all that, but that does not mean it would happen

 

[gerarddwatts]

List the EU countries not using the euro please.

 

[countrryboy]

I just googlesd it afore. Seemingly only 18 of the 28 use the euro. Den, swe, Hungray, Lithunia, Poland, Romania Crotia and Czech Rep.
Some are older members so don't have to change to euro's but the later ones are all since 04 and should change, but they dinae seem in a hurry to enforce it, seemingly the same with Crotia which jist joined last year and seemingly not in a hurry to make them adopt the euro. So they're may be a chance the euro will not necesarrily imposed on us

U should have a read at that september18.com site i have learned a lot from it.

 

[gerarddwatts]

You should look properly. All countries but 2 are committed to join the euro...UK and Denmark which used a legal opt-out not available to new members.

 

[wivenhoe65]

So lets see , in the yes world they seem to think they can keep using the pound , unofficially of course because a currency union is out of the question (you've been told - so don't do the if / but / maybe bit ) , so when you apply to join the EU who do you think might veto your application if you do not sign up to use the Euro (and stop unofficially using their currency ....... ) ?

 

[Sharpie]

I just googlesd it afore. Seemingly only 18 of the 28 use the euro. Den, swe, Hungray, Lithunia, Poland, Romania Crotia and Czech Rep.
Some are older members so don't have to change to euro's but the later ones are all since 04 and should change, but they dinae seem in a hurry to enforce it, seemingly the same with Crotia which jist joined last year and seemingly not in a hurry to make them adopt the euro. So they're may be a chance the euro will not necesarrily imposed on us

U should have a read at that september18.com site i have learned a lot from it.

It is much more complicated than that.

Uniquely the UK is not in the ERM, and has an opt out from the Euro.

The reason it is no longer in the ERM was "Black Wednesday". Perhaps you are too young to remember that ? Don't worry, something similar will be coming soon, to an independent Scotland.

Denmark is in the ERM but has opted out from the Euro. Good choice.

Sweden has not opted out, so will have to join the Euro some day. But is using every trick in the book to avoid it.

The likes of Croatia would love to be allowed to join so, but they don't yet meet the necessary convergence criteria.

Neither did Greece, Italy Portugal Ireland etc. so the matter was fudged and they were let in. That won't easily happen again.

For an example of the kind of mess that Scotland might find itself, see the Croatian situation

Croatia and the euro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Black Wednesday - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sweden and the euro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[gerarddwatts]

I have seen mention of a sept18com site or something like it.....you have to remember it is a partisan site, and will only feed you information to back up its position. The site is relying on the gullibility of its viewers to swallow its nonsense.

I can only repeat H.M. The Queen at Crathie Kirk today.....Think carefully before you vote!!

 

[Sauer90]

Just back from Scotland, Robert in Crockart's was explaining his valid position - he had a nicely decked out truck as we helped him unload it!


Shameful defacing of the No campaign advertising driving through Scotland. Lots of people pi$$ed at the intimidation.


Independence would be good for us here in England as it gets rid of a cart load of labour mp's - yay! Downside: lame duck coalitions again, hmm maybe not a downside after thinking about it.
For Scotland it is likely to cause unnecessary pain and suffering. Not much point expanding the reasons but it appears that SNP are trying to sell a lemon.


Many are also worried about the fall out of a close called 'No' victory.

 

[NOTSHARP]

Starting my week reading this was not pleasant.


Bank of England Panic! Scottish Independence Bank Run Already Underway! :: The Market Oracle :: Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting Free Website


How on earth anyone could read this, and still think that it is all Westminster propaganda, is beyond me. The article is not made up, or wishful thinking. It is backed up with fact.

The damage already done to the British economy and the Pound, has only been at the possibility of a "YES" outcome to the vote on Thursday.

What on earth do you think will happen if it is a "YES" ?????


Damaging the Pound, and the SG insisting that they use it in a CU ??

Look to what happened in Cyprus, when funds in private bank accounts were siezed by the government.

Do you really think that it could/would not happen here?

I have my pension in Scotland, along with two investment bonds with Scottish companies, and I'm expected to not worry!


All those with heads buried in the sand, beware. At some point, someone will come along and park a bike in the crack of your a$$.




Steve.

 

[private fraser]

Frankly there is bigger problems in the world to deal with at the moment and we should be focusing as a united front on dealing with Isis and the Islamic threat to civilisation that threatens ALL of us !

Our union has seen off some serious threats to the civilised world together , how is this going to improve anything ?

Sadly for all of us I think the damage is already done and for what ?

+1 on that.

UK Prime minister David Cameron promises to hunt down the people who murdered SCOTS aid worker....

Prime Minister vows UK will s killers | Scotland | STV News

It'll be left to the RoUK countries to do that If its a yes vote on Thursday.

ps... If Scotland goes independent and another SCOT is captured, what is Salmond going to do about it ???

 

[gubrath]

I have seen mention of a sept18com site or something like it.....you have to remember it is a partisan site, and will only feed you information to back up its position. The site is relying on the gullibility of its viewers to swallow its nonsense.

I can only repeat H.M. The Queen at Crathie Kirk today.....Think carefully before you vote!!

I will, thanks for telling me to. BTW, The Queen didn't say what you've said. She didn't tell anyone to do anything. She only said "she hoped Scots would consider closely what their “important” votes would mean"