Firearms fees proposals

[I. Farticus]

If Licences had risen by 1.03% per annum for the last 13 years, the costs would be:

SGC Grant - 5% lower
SGC Renewal - 19% higher
FAC Grant - 16% lower
FAC Renewal - 2% lower
Coterminous Grant - 1% higher
Coterminous Renewal - 14% lower
Variations - 49% lower (as have come down from £26 to £20)

All said and done, if these "increases" are put into effect and I put in for 3 variations over the 5 years, it will cost me £3 less than if there had been no change in the licence fees!!!

 

[Dalua]

It's not a popular viewpoint, but I think we should pay full cost recovery. It puts us in a strong position as shooters

I'm not sure how it would put us in a strong position. It seems to me that our position, should we agree to such, would be infinitely weaker, since all the HO would have to do is change guidance so that higher-graded staff have to do more in-depth checks, and the cost could then increase pretty much without limits.

The certificate holders would then certainly have the moral high-ground to demand an excellent service - but their numbers might be reduced to occupational users whose certificates are paid for by employers, and folk wealthy enough to afford whatever the fee might end up as.

The point has been made that increases in fees have been suggested in the past as an effective means sinply to reduce civillian firearms ownership - and that suggestion has not been made groundlessly.

The Firearms Act is on the statute books ostensibly for the benefit of the General Public, not FAC/SGC-holders alone. It seems to me that to allow our paying the entire cost of the administration of the Act as reasonable is to shoulder a yoke of uncertain future weight, and that by doing so we expose our less-well-off fellow-sportsmen to the risk of being priced out of the game.

 

[timbrayford]

If S5 attracts no charge why does S1 & 2? Surely the whole idea of having a licensing system is for the benefit of the wider community, not specifically shooters whom in other parts of the world manage quite happily without the "benefit" of all that dubious bureaucracy.
atb Tim

 

[finnbear270]

Looks like we have to go buy some more KY!!!!!!, When will B.A.S.C. get the message?....... WE NEED A PROPER SERVICE ACROSS THE BOARD, then start to think about cost increases.

 

[jimbo1984]

It's not a popular viewpoint, but I think we should pay full cost recovery. It puts us in a strong position as shooters.

I also think the fees should rise every 5 years with inflation over that period. 5 years as that is the length of a cert so each holder will pay each fee before it changes.

I don't want all forces the same. They will move down to the lowest common denominator - not up to the level of the best. We see this in so many things time and time again. Quite happy with the job North Yorkshire are doing!

so to those with less enlightened flds it's a big f@&k you then from you ? How nice :/

 

[David63]

I agree we need a fair and consistent service, there are ,as we all know, a few who seem to keep on adding layers of paperwork etc over and above what is required, adding time and cost to them and unnecessary agro for us, with no benefit to anyone. However, there are fewer of these than there were 10, or even 5 years ago.

With this fee increase comes an online service to be rolled out that should certainly help improving service levels across the board, its one step but an important one. We will , of course, keep pressure on the licencing teams with the objective ensuring an improvement in services across the board.

 

[Lucky Sniper]

IMO the increases are fair considering they have not risen in 13 years. If BASC intend to put pressure on all to improve their services then I am all for that. I do have to say that the North Yorkshire team are brilliant and if they have to improve then they could only be SUPER BRILLIANT!!!

 

[Taff]

Just been talking to nz police $126.50 for ten yrs for the standard license, they must be more efficient than our police, £63.25p . Obviously if I want a pistol or semi auto pistol grip the want £100,

 

[762Scot]

Perhaps something to consider... Everything is fair until it is not fair anymore.
I am always concerned about the slippery slope and the saying "If you give them an inch they will take a mile"

 

[49ERIC]

If Licences had risen by 1.03% per annum for the last 13 years, the costs would be:

SGC Grant - 5% lower
SGC Renewal - 19% higher
FAC Grant - 16% lower
FAC Renewal - 2% lower
Coterminous Grant - 1% higher
Coterminous Renewal - 14% lower
Variations - 49% lower (as have come down from £26 to £20)

All said and done, if these "increases" are put into effect and I put in for 3 variations over the 5 years, it will cost me £3 less than if there had been no change in the licence fees!!!

mmm what about one for one free variation ?

 

[Apache]

mmm what about one for one free variation ?

That's going up 700%

 

[phitt]

The system is a disgrace at the moment in some constabularies. As for law abiding citizens having to pay for the service they receive, what about the ones who cost us all millions by not following the laws as laid down by the land? It's all arse for tit if you ask me.
Efficiency and consistency first, increased fees after.

 

[Simjim33]

It's not a popular viewpoint, but I think we should pay full cost recovery. It puts us in a strong position as shooters.

I also think the fees should rise every 5 years with inflation over that period. 5 years as that is the length of a cert so each holder will pay each fee before it changes.

I don't want all forces the same. They will move down to the lowest common denominator - not up to the level of the best. We see this in so many things time and time again. Quite happy with the job North Yorkshire are doing!

Well that's all good for you then! Spot on.

 

[artschool]

i can't believe what i am reading in this thread. if you tell them that you are happy to pay more then you will pay more.

perhaps when after a few annual reviews and the licence has risen to £500 per annum you wont be so happy to pay.

its just a piece of paper. the fee should not change and the police should be more efficient.

 

[49ERIC]

That's going up 700% [/QUOTE

Yes to right, sale rifle £20 ! sale moderator £20 add condition £20 Add or change ammunition £20 buy rifle £20 buy moderator £20 all these can take place a fair few times within the five years , well could turn out very expensive for some , be cheaper to pay £200 ON RENEWAL and keep the free one for one if it means all Variations to cost £20 well its not very clear ,

 

[badbob]

Artschool is spot on.

Licences should be free

Do the druggies, alkis,crimbos and scumbags pay for the Police hours spent on them


Far too much red tape in what cal you can have, what you can and cannot shoot with certain calibre,
where you can shoot .which calibres are "safer" or "more dangerous" what moderator goes with what,
have you been prescribed antibiotics,...Too much regulation of law abiding shooters.

the wedge is still at the thin end, antis will keep wanting to increase fees to prohibitive levels...Yes and motive being
to make it too expensive and too arduous to get a licence.

 

[tumbleweed]

Well once again another shooting assoc takes a step back and lets the acpo run right over the top of it. I have always said that once anywhere in the govt stealth taxes mentions an astrinomical price increase whilst providing a sh!t service everyone awaits the associations stepping up to the plate to fight on behalf of the membership and what happens they meakly accept a price increase as if everyone can just reach into their back pockets and pay without the blink of an eye because it is not that great an increase compared to what was first bandied about. Well it's about time that they got their fingers oot A their erses and ask what the members want to negotiate on and what is acceptable and if they are not sure then get on the blowers to the members and check before they accept any proposed deals.

 

[Apache]

I've heard all the arguments before. I remain unconvinced. If for my sport or leisure I chose to have a SGC and or a FAC then I should pay the real cost. This is very different to having to use the police for their core activities. I can't believe you would even suggest it was wise for a single second to abolish the certification procedure and just let anyone who wanted one a gun. Assuming you do not want firearms in the hands of the unfit then we have to have a system that prevents that. Why should something I chose to acquire be paid for by taxpayers? Very very few of us need a gun.

The people who want all forces to be the same tend to be the ones who are badly dealt with. They wait ages for variations, renewals overdue, extra silly conditions etc etc. I'm not seeing many people calling for us all to be the same from the good authorities because they know it would only get worse. I'd be quite happy if they let North Yorks run the countries licensing system, but what if Cheshire got the job? I would argue that the majority of forces would get worse, for a few to improve - a gravitation to the mean. Half the certificate holders would be worse off.

I'm not saying the law we have makes much sense (1 for 1 variations) but there is no way on earth that these will ever be free. Shooters are a minority in the general population.

 

[David63]

Far from being a step back this is a significant step forward. Nor is it a case of anyone meekly accepting anything.

Remember proposals were flying around for licence fees to go up to £110, or £250 with no offer at all of an increase in service, which BASC fought off.

To put it bluntly you have 2 choices

Push for the current , modest proposed fees increase, or do nothing and knock this deal off the table.

Short term win if you do stuff all.

But as soon as we get a change of government we will see licence fees jump in one go to £200 or more with no offer of improvement in services, and by that time there will be nothing you me or anyone can do about it.

David

 

[topscots1]

Can we so formalised timescales of application / variation times and without good reason for the delay a refund of all or partial costs then. I am fortunate in having a local office that sees themselves as a service provider and are more than willing to help as opposed to look for problems. I do not mind paying for a service if it is of an acceptable standard.

I have read read and spoken to people who have been misinformed by FEOs on more than one occasion. I was initially questioned by several officers as to why I wanted 2 308s one a stalking rifle and one a target set up.

If if I can have one why not ten I believe a threshold of calibre that an individual can own as opposed to a limit on the rifles would be a more sensible policy and am yet to hear a decent argument as to why not each rifle I own has a specific purpose now I could have one that would cope with everything but I choose to have several that do each task well.

as far as paying goes the claims that the taxpayer foots the bill for the shooting community is nonsense the shooting comunity are tax payers.

I am am much more opposed to footing the bill for the methadone programmes or the reintegration of foreign Jihadi tourists returning from Syria,Iraq and Libya.