357/38 special underlever

[Southern]

Well, that is the best way to do it anyway, with rifles which are new to you, to go to the range and shoot a few of them.
There are differences between a Winchester 94 and a Win 92 in the same .375 caliber. And there are a half dozen varieties of Marlin 1894s, in terms of barrel length, round or octagon, sights, straight stock or straight, crescent steel butt or flat.

Just to throw more confusion into the soup, here is a replica of the old Colt Lightning, in .357 / 38, a pump action, the Beretta Gold Rush, in 20-inch and 24-inch barrels

 

[Psyxologos]

Thanks. I know, it is confusing. I did handle a .17hmr underlever, and was told you can get the same in 357. I did not like it as it was not a straight stock. So at least I learned that. Unfortunately it is difficult to shoot before you buy in the UK, unless you know someone who has the rifle and allows you to shot it.

 

[8x57]

Well, that is the best way to do it anyway, with rifles which are new to you, to go to the range and shoot a few of them.
There are differences between a Winchester 94 and a Win 92 in the same .375 caliber. And there are a half dozen varieties of Marlin 1894s, in terms of barrel length, round or octagon, sights, straight stock or straight, crescent steel butt or flat.

Just to throw more confusion into the soup, here is a replica of the old Colt Lightning, in .357 / 38, a pump action, the Beretta Gold Rush, in 20-inch and 24-inch barrels
View attachment 53838

Unfortunately the lightning would fall foul of our insane firearms laws which only allow pump action rifles in .22 rimfire.

Psyxgologos obviously your local gunshop doesn't do a lot with gallery rifles then if he says he wouldn't be able to shift them. I would suggest that you need to travel further afield if you are really interested in buying an underlever in .38spl/.357mag. You need to get to something like the shooting show, or especially the Phoenix meeting at Bisley at the end of May. The place will be awash with underlever rifles in pistol calibres.

 

[Greener Jim]

Which is a shame as a Remmy 760 in .270 would be a great thing.

 

[Psyxologos]

Psyxgologos obviously your local gunshop doesn't do a lot with gallery rifles then if he says he wouldn't be able to shift them. I would suggest that you need to travel further afield if you are really interested in buying an underlever in .38spl/.357mag. You need to get to something like the shooting show, or especially the Phoenix meeting at Bisley at the end of May. The place will be awash with underlever rifles in pistol calibres.

Thanks. I will have a look to see if they have a website I can get some info from.

 

[Greener Jim]

Centerfire Rifles

This is a good site to get some idea what gets imported into the UK. Plenty of lever guns on there.
Also, may I suggest having a look on Henry Krank's website.

 

[alberta boy]

Which is a shame as a Remmy 760 in .270 would be a great thing.

I gave my youngest daughter one in 30/06 , she's very good with it . She likes pump action rifles and shotguns . She owns a Rem 870 12 gauge from the 60s and an old Savage 22 lr that was made in the 40s . She quite happy with all of them lol .

AB

 

[FrenchieBoy]

Thanks. I will have a look to see if they have a website I can get some info from.

Hi old mate. I don't know if this will help but if you haven't got youraelf sorted with an "underlever" and are not in too much of a rush our club has a Full Bore shoot at our indoor range on Thursday 30th April. Our members shoot a variety of 357/38 and 44 underlevers and you would be most welcome to come with me as my guest and try the different makes and models.

OOPS! Edited to correct date!

 

[8x57]

One of our club members mentioned on Sunday that he was thinking of getting rid of his Marlin .44 with 24" octagonal barrel. He has owned it for perhaps ten years and has shot it rarely, it really is mint. Though not a great fan of underlevers myself having owned several in the past I was sorely tempted but I made the mistake of telling him how much his rifle was now worth, they have risen in price considerably since he bought his. He then decided to keep the rifle.

Most of the guys who shoot gallery rifle at our club and there are many, have the shorter barrelled Marlins in either .357 or .44mag, only one guy shoots a Winchester legacy in .357. The Marlin is by far the most popular make with gallery rifle shooters. We also have a couple of guys who have purchased Rossi underlevers but it was the attraction of the lower price especially with second hand bargains that was the main reason for their purchases.
None of the thirty or so shooters who shoot underlevers in the club have purchased Henry or the Chiappa rifles. Though one guy shoots a Ubertti yellowboy in .38spl that he picked up cheap several years ago and will probably sell it if he could because it's not really suitable for most gallery rifle events.

 

[Psyxologos]

Hi old mate. I don't know if this will help but if you haven't got youraelf sorted with an "underlever" and are not in too much of a rush our club has a Full Bore shoot at our indoor range on Thursday 30th April. Our members shoot a variety of 357/38 and 44 underlevers and you would be most welcome to come with me as my guest and try the different makes and models.

OOPS! Edited to correct date!

Yes please. I would be obliged if I could. Thanks Pete. I will be in touch.

 

[Psyxologos]

Most of the guys who shoot gallery rifle at our club and there are many, have the shorter barrelled Marlins in either .357 or .44mag, only one guy shoots a Winchester legacy in .357. The Marlin is by far the most popular make with gallery rifle shooters. We also have a couple of guys who have purchased Rossi underlevers but it was the attraction of the lower price especially with second hand bargains that was the main reason for their purchases.
None of the thirty or so shooters who shoot underlevers in the club have purchased Henry or the Chiappa rifles. Though one guy shoots a Ubertti yellowboy in .38spl that he picked up cheap several years ago and will probably sell it if he could because it's not really suitable for most gallery rifle events.

That's very helpful, thanks. Any idea why the Henry or Chiapas are not too popular? I like the look if a Henry 'ig boy' but have not seen or handled one so I don't have a first hand experience.

 

[8x57]

Both are based heavily on older designs and are more suited to re-enactors or the cowboy shooting fraternity. Gallery rifle sprung up when our pistols were stolen off us and were seen as an alternative way to keep shooting the popular police and service matches that we shot with pistols. The Marlin 94 is generally seen as best suited to this as it side ejects and the mounting of a scope on the solid top rail is very easy. They are also seen as being smoother for rapid fire shooting than the Winchester.

The Winchester 94 in .357 also has a mixed reputation for reliability. It has a far better reputation in .44 and .45lc though obtaining any sort of spares for the pistol calibre Winchesters these days is like seeking unicorn poo.
Spares for Marlin rifles on the other hand are relatively easy to come by in this country, mainly because of the volume of use these rifles can get when shot by gallery rfle shooters who will often shoot several hundred rounds a week through their rifles in competition and practise. Unfortunately all this wear and tear can result in broken firing pins (usually replaced with a one piece stainless steel firing pin) and shell carriers, and also lost ejector springs. Most serious gallery rifle shooters will carry a kit of spare parts with them.

If you are serious about buying a pistol calibre underlever take up the chance that you have been offered and go and have a look at a club where gallery rifle is shot. If its just a pistol calibre fun gun that you looking for and not a serious competition rifle have a look at a model 92 Rossi. The 92 always looks much nicer to my eye than a 94.

P.S. Rifle calibre underlevers are a slightly different matter as most don't get the same amount of use. Personally if I were looking for a .30-30 calibre rifle I would buy a Winchester just because they look better, and if I were looking for a .444/.45-70 I would buy a Marlin.

 

[scrumbag]

The Winchester 94 in .357 also has a mixed reputation for reliability. It has a far better reputation in .44 and .45lc though obtaining any sort of spares for the pistol calibre Winchesters these days is like seeking unicorn poo.

Hi 8x57,

I understand that is the case with the Winchester 94s. They were originally designed for .30-30 length cartridges and so the relatively short pistol cartridges don’t do so well in them (This 44 Mag and 45LC are a bit longer than the .357M and particularly 38spc right?). I was under the impression that the 1894Marlins were designed specifically around pistol length cartridges?

ATB,

Scrummy

 

[FrenchieBoy]

Yes please. I would be obliged if I could. Thanks Pete. I will be in touch.

You're more than welcome, as always! I've lost your phonwe number so whenever you are ready text me and I will call you and we can have a chat!

 

[8x57]

Hi 8x57,

I understand that is the case with the Winchester 94s. They were originally designed for .30-30 length cartridges and so the relatively short pistol cartridges don’t do so well in them (This 44 Mag and 45LC are a bit longer than the .357M and particularly 38spc right?). I was under the impression that the 1894Marlins were designed specifically around pistol length cartridges?



ATB,

Scrummy

Thats certainly the case sir. Apparently the design converted much better to .44 and .45 than it did to .357mag from what I understand.

One of our new club members told me on Sunday morning that he has recently purchased .357 winchester in pristine condition apart from a broken cartridge carrier/shell lifter for only £100. He is having a new one made as he hasn't been able to source a new one either here or in the U.S. So far he has been waiting 4 months for the gunsmith to make the new carrier. There was a guy in this country who developed a method of repairing or making improved lifters but unfortunately I don't have any contact details for him and I can't remember who told me about him or I would have put our club member in contact with him.

 

[Laurie]

In its final days of USRAC (US Repeating Arms Corporation) ownership, the originally Winchester Repeating Arms Co. and its New Haven, Mass factory were run right down and produced a lot of sub-standard products in a bid to reduce costs.

Apart from being the American equivalent of the old BLMC in its final days with life-expired machinery, inflexible bolshie over-unionised workforce and asset stripping owners, USRAC adopted 'wonderful' innovations of which the best (ie worst) was the replacement of machined or even pressed steel parts with cast sintered components. The sintered metal has all the strength and longevity of an alloy of "melted down down NAAFI teaspoons stiffened with horsehair" to quote the late great motoring writer LJK Setright on an early brand of alloy car wheels. Sintered cartridge lifters break very easily and were amongst the least robust parts used in a really poor Winchester bag of products from that era.

The Winchester name is now licensed by FN Herstal, or maybe its US arm, FNH-USA which bought the remnants of USRAC. New Haven was closed and recent Winchester bolt-action rifles are manufactured by FNH-USA in a new build southern US factory to very high standards. 'Browning' (Japanese ... Miroku?) continued to make some high quality, high-price commemorative stuff in the leverguns. There was talk of FNH-USA reinstating the Winchester '94 in US production, but I don't know if that ever happened.

 

[Southern]

In its dying gasp, the old Winchester factory in New Haven produced some very nice, higher grade Model 92s and 94s in .357, .44, .45 Colt, .32-40, and even .25-20, some of the M-92s in takedown.

I have some of those Model 94 saddle ring carbines in .44 Magnum and .357, and gave one of the .44s away as a present to a hunting pal. They all shoot and feed well. I like the old full rifle 94, myself, along with the 1886 and Model 71. And Marlins 336s from the 1930s through the 1970s.

Yesterday, I handled some of the new Marlin 336s, which had matte finish on the metal and plain birch stocks, stained. The clerk said you could order walnut and a satin blue finish, and he had one on order for himself.

He also had two Model 92s, made in Columbia, South Carolina at the FN factory. They were high polish, black steel, with nice walnut, but not cheap, $1,199.00. The Model 94 is still made in that same FN factory, as is the Model 70, which is really better than ever. Some production is done by Miroku and some by FN Herstal, too, such as small runs of 1885s and some of the high grade Model 94s. The M-101 shotgun in made in Herstal along with the Browning B-25. Rumor from friends ( my farm is only 15 miles from the FN factory and I know engineers and others there, but rarely see them ) is that some production is moving to Herstal.

 

[Laurie]

Southern, I'm very pleased to hear that FNH-USA has reinstated the leverguns and is making a good job of them. Whilst I had a late USRAC / pre-FNH New Haven '94 in 45LC that was a poor number, and a 70 Stealth in 243WSSM also from that period that didn't impress either, I acquired a post FNH takeover but still New Haven FN Special Police Rifle originally in 308 Win, now in .260 Rem. It was one of the first 10 to be imported into the UK with a McMillan A4 or A5 adjustable tactical stock and using a special version of the Win Model 70 WSM action - the so-called 'FBI rifle'. It was and still is a most impressive performer and really well made. Moreover, the intial price which I paid was frankly a 'steal' - the UK importer changed soon afterwards and prices were doubled as a first move! With the addition of a match Jewell trigger, it's one of my collection that won't be sold on anytime soon. So, I'm quite a fan of FNH and its works - as no doubt are the US forces given all the work FNH-USA does for Uncle Sam on .50BMG M2s, producing M249 SAWs and suchlike. (I believe those M249 Minimis are made by your neighbours just down the road from you too?)

 

[Southern]

Yes, that FN plant was originally built for the M-16, after FN came up with some new bullets and faster twist, which made it a much more accurate, long range and harder hitting weapon. Then they added on the M2, SAW, and the 7.62x51 light machineguns. With all that winding down, it was easy to shift over to making the rifles, as they were already taking Model 70s from New Haven and building them as tactical rifles for military and police work in Europe. They designed and build the SCAR there now, too. What a fun rifle that is to shoot !! Back in that transition period, before the SCAR came out, I used to run in to the engineers and military personnel more, because they used the my club rifle range, and I would be out there testing loads or some rifle I or a friend had built. I would shoot their SCAR or FNP bolt action, and they would shoot my SHR 970 or HK-91 or old FAL or 1903s, or new suppressed AR-15 experiment.

A lot of the limited run rifles are hard to find on the Winchester and Browning websites. I will try to keep posting direct links to them, as you will miss out if you blink. FN, like many large European firms, has antiquated manufacturing forecasting and planning, so they will build something that sells out and then not deviate from their ill-formed plan.

Browning, for example, built some more 1885 single shot, as the B-78 Sporter, with 24-inch barrels, in .30-06, .270, 7mm Rem Mag. And Winchester made some in .300 H&H and .375 H&H with iron sights, but only a few hundred.

 

[Colonel]

Hi, I have Marlin 44 cowboy limited ed, and love it. If you have the chance of that Marlin 44 24" octagonal barrel, grab it, you may not get the chances of another one for years. I have not put a scope on my cowboy, I have a Lyman sight which is a great bit of kit. My club range is 45 yrd and I often shot the pegs off the targets at that range with it. On my Marlin guide gun 45-70, I am going to put a Leupold VXIII 1.75-6x32 scope on for driven boar.