Should the UK have public land for stalking?

[mchughcb]

Interesting, comments about culture. I'm quite sure people would be keen to report anybody breaking the law on private property, not sure why that wouldn't happen on public land. Happens over here and encouraged by the government as they can't be everywhere, they rely on hunters to help.

 

[JabaliHunter]

I have been involved in the regulations for hunting game species on public land in Victoria through hunting organisations. This got me thinking about the UK.

Should the UK have public land for deer stalking? If so what is holding this back from being law. If not, why not?

Well MOD land is out for obvious reasons but FC and National Parks are both hunted over here. So what is the issue?

How about stalking rabbits, foxes and minks with FAC air rifles on public land, could that work?

No, because there is no public land and no politician is ever going to get very far trying to advocate using public funds to purchase private property for the purpose of creating public hunting access.

National parks are private farmland and forestry where public access is allowed by law, but even then there are restrictions. The hunting rights are private.

Forestry Commission is I believe a public body set up for commercial timber production but with private ownership rights. Some land is owned, but some is only leased from landowners. Where FC owns sporting rights, they use their own Rangers for crop (tree) protection and they also let sporting rights.

 

[bogtrotter]

It works quite well as things are, don't see any advantage to public hunting land as far as the UK is concerned

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[mchughcb]

No, because there is no public land and no politician is ever going to get very far trying to advocate using public funds to purchase private property for the purpose of creating public hunting access.

National parks are private farmland and forestry where public access is allowed by law, but even then there are restrictions. The hunting rights are private.

Forestry Commission is I believe a public body set up for commercial timber production but with private ownership rights. Some land is owned, but some is only leased from landowners. Where FC owns sporting rights, they use their own Rangers for crop (tree) protection and they also let sporting rights.

Then another approach could be to add hunting subject to licensing to common rights ?

 

[mchughcb]

Private land purchase which has occurred in my state for degraded farmland turned into state reserves for hunting hog deer and duck hunting is still used by other users.

 

[mchughcb]

It works quite well as things are, don't see any advantage to public hunting land as far as the UK is concerned

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

A bit like fox hunting with hounds? Hound hunting for deer is still used over here and endorsed by the government. All hounds are registered and hunters licenced after passing their tests and they hunt on public land. Is that better than what you have ? Who's system is broken, who's is fixed ?

 

[countrryboy]

Then another approach could be to add hunting subject to licensing to common rights ?

But that would mean buyig the shooting rights of those who already own them. No public body would ever waste there money doing that. Would be a massive outcry

The simple fact is there really is very very little public land available and the little there is, is over used by many different people with different interests.
And shooting/field sports are really looked down on in this country now with masses of the population not understanding it

If u look/search Ilkley moor threads on here, big movement to ban shooting on the moor which was bought by local concil years ago. They actually leased the shooting out commercially as the moor was going to rack and ruin with no management but shooting is the only thing that will pay for the management

Althou if u believe and SNO gets its way at holyrood there may be a lot more public ground in scotland but more like a land grab really and hunting would most likely be banned along with private gun ownership

 

[devon deer stalker]

Nice idea, not really enough suitable public (wilderness) land to make it work though.

That's it in a nut shell.
Cheers
Richard

 

[JabaliHunter]

Then another approach could be to add hunting subject to licensing to common rights ?

License to hunt where though?
in a sense we already have that - anyone who wants to hunt can do so under 'license' from the owner of the rights.

 

[chunky sailor]

There would be a bit more land to go around if some of the greedy gentry gave some back.One man owning 40,000 acres is just obscene and no its not sour grapes i have plenty of land to shoot on but theres plenty that havnt.Same old story theres them with and them without and it will always be the same because we dont live in a democracy we are subjects roll on the revolution!!!!

 

[timbrayford]

Apparently:- "The largest institutional landowners are The Forestry Commission with 2.4 million acres, then the Ministry of Defence with 750,000 acres"

That seems to be an awful lot of publicly owned land that could be shot over. Why not put the rights out to public tender in a properly co-ordinated manner with an appropriate overall national deer management plan for the public estate?

atb Tim

 

[smullery]

Apparently:- "The largest institutional landowners are The Forestry Commission with 2.4 million acres, then the Ministry of Defence with 750,000 acres"

That seems to be an awful lot of publicly owned land that could be shot over. Why not put the rights out to public tender in a properly co-ordinated manner with an appropriate overall national deer management plan for the public estate?

atb Tim

Tim,

Because the result of the Tender would be Private Companies forking out the large sum of money required. Individuals can't afford the current setup with FC without recourse to forming syndicates.
Public land in Australia and USA etc tends to be larger than than we can comprehend. Even they end up with tag systems in the areas that are close to the size of Wales.

Stan

 

[mchughcb]

Stan, we do not have tag systems and Victoria is the same size as the UK. The land available is surprisingly close to what Tim mentions.

 

[rodp]

yeah, but all our "Public" land is run by the old boy network. We don't really have any say in what's done with it, they just say it's ours to keep us happy about them personally owning millions of acres.

 

[mchughcb]

If you don't gave any say rod, is it time to support a more socialist leaning government?

 

[rodp]

Wouldn't matter who you supported, it wouldn't change. This is a very, very old country and it's how things have always been. One day perhaps it may alter, can't see it being in my lifetime though.

Probably why we get so many law breakers where land is concerned, everything from illegal use of motorcycles to poaching on other folk's land. There's just nowhere to do it legally so they think "stuff it, I'll do it anyway".

 

[paul k]

Free access for hunting on public land would never work, any idea of proper management would go out of the window unless we had a system of issuing a number of male or female tags designed to achieve the required cull as they do in the USA. We'd probably have to adopt the compulsory orange clothing as you'd have no idea or control on who else was on the ground and safety would be a huge issue, especially when general public access is thrown into the mix.

We effectively have access to public land via the FC and other public land owners much as the current system of tendering is unsatisfactory for purely recreational stalkers and anything else is probably a non starter.

It's nothing to do with politics in terms of getting a change however those in the Socialist State of Scotland will know how difficult the right to roam has made deer management and stalking in some situations.

 

[old keeper]

There would be a bit more land to go around if some of the greedy gentry gave some back.One man owning 40,000 acres is just obscene and no its not sour grapes i have plenty of land to shoot on but theres plenty that havnt.Same old story theres them with and them without and it will always be the same because we dont live in a democracy we are subjects roll on the revolution!!!!

Lot of truth in that Chunky Sailor, but then again there are those who take over vast areas for commercial pigeon shooting, Organizations that stalk over huge areas which would provide stalking for a lot of less fortunate people. It's happening all the time. As far as public land, if there was anty, I suspect it would be carnage!!

 

[countrryboy]

So if in theory all the FC land and MOD land is similar in size to the public owned land in Vic, wot is the population in Vic? And wot is the size of the state as a whole?

That land has in UK has in theory 50 odd million potentail users, hunters mountain bikers walkers etc
And even the MOD land is usually training areas bombing/artillery ranges while i'm sure it could be possible to have some sort of access agreement probably not a good idea. Do u really think the millitary should scrap a last minute training exercise cos Joe Bloggs is out stalking. If u give stalkers access wot other groups deserve access bikers, ramblers etc. Do u think ramblers would always book in, check range is safe? They often dinae follow many rules/guidlines as it is.
Do the military not also have some sort of stalking club anyway?

Also not really fair to compare FC ground to wilderness public ground in other countries either, while it is open access there still trying to grow a crop of timber off it, these truely wild places in likes of OZ, NZ USA etc are just that wild places with little or no management and no one trying to grow a vaible crop off them. Some off these wilderness areas are truely massive

If u open the ground up to tender will the people with the fattest wallets not get them?

And while this is about public land stalkiing the ammount of private stalking surrounding it will be massive so taking a lot of stalking pressure of public ground, and even 1 private farm over there would be plenty to keep many stalkers happy

The bottom line is as was said on the 1st page the empty public owned land doesnae really exist and the countries far too small for the population it really is not vaible

 

[tozzybum]

non starter ,historical private ownership,fattest wallet wins the bid ,and good old self interest too late for us poms.u have a good set up with issues we have a status quo that aint going to change anytime soon.more and more stalkers less land more restrictions and F.C and MOD land tied up with their own red tape .this is a thought provoking idea with a snowballs chance in hell of public land public shooting ever happening atb