Should the UK have public land for stalking?

[Kalahari]

Chunky Sailor, perhaps you would set an example to these rich people and give up all rights over your garden and house. In law that is precisely the situation you are advocating. Also the best looked after areas from a wildlife point of view are in private hands. A left wing government (who's ideals you appear to support) would nationalise the land and give it to the RSPB/RSPCA/LACS and then where would we be.

David.

 

[rodp]

Chunky Sailor, perhaps you would set an example to these rich people and give up all rights over your garden and house. In law that is precisely the situation you are advocating. Also the best looked after areas from a wildlife point of view are in private hands. A left wing government (who's ideals you appear to support) would nationalise the land and give it to the RSPB/RSPCA/LACS and then where would we be.

David.

Well then it wouldn't be public land would it ?

 

[SaOsborne]

I must admit I would love to see the public owned land opened up for public hunting, where individuals have to buy a reasonably priced tag, are limited in number. If hunters break the law their equipment is seized and big fines/ imprisonment, would stop poaching/excess hunting. Having hunted some of our public lands, it of course would never work here as the population is just to dense. the pressures would be high and safety a big issue, so training and safety exams would have to be mandatory. Cant see any of our lands ever being freed up, public pay for them then the elite hunt them, or you form a syndicate, or join one you may be lucky to get on FC land, but for how long?

 

[private fraser]

Interesting, comments about culture. I'm quite sure people would be keen to report anybody breaking the law on private property, not sure why that wouldn't happen on public land. Happens over here and encouraged by the government as they can't be everywhere, they rely on hunters to help.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the UK,that's why I asked earlier.
Here's an example of what can and has happened here...

Pigeon shooter is set up in a hide,where he has written permission and away from any public right of way, going about his lawful business....

Joe public comes trespassing along,gets a fright and is offended by "a man with a gun" and reports it to the police.
The police come along,possibly with an armed response team and a helicopter to accost the "man with a gun".
Mr pigeon shooter is well inconvenienced, Mr trespasser is not in the least inconvenienced.

Our shooting organisations are trying to turn things around and would probably appreciate the help of someone of your experience.

 

[JTO]

If you don't gave any say rod, is it time to support a more socialist leaning government?

From your first few posts, I had you down as a control-freak Socialist.

 

[Kalahari]

Publicly owned land means land owned by the government, and if you think the sort of government that would seize huge chunks of privately owned land are friendly to field sports please think again. Just look at the potential problems that are on the horizon in Scotland!

David.

 

[rodp]

Publicly owned land means land owned by the government, and if you think the sort of government that would seize huge chunks of privately owned land are friendly to field sports please think again. Just look at the potential problems that are on the horizon in Scotland!

David.

You did say and give it to the RSPB/RSPCA/LACS. Then it wouldn't be publicly owned would it ? Did you mean let them control it but still government owned?

 

[timbrayford]

Publicly owned land means land owned by the government,

David.

Not so, public land is owned by and was bought by the taxpayer, i.e. you, me, in fact all of us. H.M.Govt. merely manages it on our behalf.

atb Tim

 

[Kalahari]

The government would control publicly owned land, they could let it out to whoever they please, or put whatever conditions on it they pleased. To believe otherwise is desperately naive.

David.

 

[mchughcb]

So if in theory all the FC land and MOD land is similar in size to the public owned land in Vic, wot is the
Also not really fair to compare FC ground to wilderness public ground in other countries either, while it is open access there still trying to grow a crop of timber off it, these truely wild places in likes of OZ, NZ USA etc are just that wild places with little or no management and no one trying to grow a vaible crop off them. Some off these wilderness areas are truely massive

In NSW, hunting on public land which is state forests, which is land owned by the government but leased to private enterprises for timber production requires people to book areas online. They hunters are required to wear blaze orange and must report sightings and game taken online before they are issued with their permission to hunt again. So it is possible to have public land hunting in areas where major primary industry is occurring and for 7+ years there has never been a significant safety incident.

 

[mchughcb]

From your first few posts, I had you down as a control-freak Socialist.

Mate I didn't introduce the poll tax to Scotland. Bet you never paid it.

 

[Hereford]

In NSW, hunting on public land which is state forests, which is land owned by the government but leased to private enterprises for timber production requires people to book areas online. They hunters are required to wear blaze orange and must report sightings and game taken online before they are issued with their permission to hunt again. So it is possible to have public land hunting in areas where major primary industry is occurring and for 7+ years there has never been a significant safety incident.

Do you have game wardens or the like then? If we ever got anywhere near what you have described above here it would be like opening the flood gates!

 

[mchughcb]

Publicly owned land means land owned by the government, and if you think the sort of government that would seize huge chunks of privately owned land are friendly to field sports please think again. Just look at the potential problems that are on the horizon in Scotland!

David.

Worth a read. What hunting organisation and Governments can do with the purchase of private land.

http://www.fga.net.au/conservation/w3/i1001224/


The Victorian Field and Game Association (VFGA) was established in 1958 and
became a National body in 1998 changing its name to Field and Game Australia Inc
(FGA). The Organisation was founded by hunters who were concerned at the
degradation and loss of wetlands across Victoria and Australia. They had noticed
a decline in Flora and Fauna especially the Pacific Black Duck (Anas
superciliosa), which became the symbol of the organisation. Three of the
resolutions adopted at the first meeting in 1958 were:

1. To develop Victorian facilities for game bird hunting by the promotion of
   game bird conservation and management projects.
2. To develop a greater public appreciation of the pleasures and values of game
   bird hunting.
3. To organise a deputation to the Chief Secretary seeking the establishment of
   a shooter’s licence to fund game and wetland conservation.

FGA is comprised of 60 branches across Australia with in excess of 13,500
members and has a long and proud history of conservation in Australia. FGA
Volunteers spend thousands of man hours and dollars each year restoring and
preserving wetlands, building and erecting nest boxes, undertaking waterfowl
surveys, conducting waterfowl identification courses, lobbing government to
retain wetlands and much more.

FGA has been involved in many long and
difficult efforts to save wetlands in Australia, not only for ducks but also for
over 100 species of birds and the flora and fauna, which depend wholly or partly
upon wetland habitats. Many of the efforts have been predominately aimed at
non-game species, especially the Glossy Ibis Plegadis falcinellus and the brolga
Grus rubicundus.

One of the first undertakings of the newly formed VFGA
was to lobby the Victorian Government to set up a Game Licensing System, whereby
hunters would pay a fee to obtain a game licence. The revenue raised from these
fees was to be used to purchase wetlands (States Game Reserves) and to finance
research, restoration and the preservation of the wetlands and their
inhabitants. The Government of the day adopted the idea and today we have 230
State Game Reserves in Victoria.

In 1978 VFGA won the prestigious ‘Victorian Conservation Prize’ which was
awarded for the defence of Victoria’s Wetlands, the preservation of wildlife
habitat and development of public awareness. The prize is awarded annually to an
organisation who has shown outstanding contributions to Conservation over the
past five years

 

[mchughcb]

Do you have game wardens or the like then? If we ever got anywhere near what you have described above here it would be like opening the flood gates!

In NSW they have some equivalent to game wardens. Very nice fellows, met a few of them during large organised driven hunts for foxes in pine forests. They are at the pointy end of enforcement.

 

[mchughcb]

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the UK,that's why I asked earlier.
Here's an example of what can and has happened here...

Pigeon shooter is set up in a hide,where he has written permission and away from any public right of way, going about his lawful business....

Joe public comes trespassing along,gets a fright and is offended by "a man with a gun" and reports it to the police.
The police come along,possibly with an armed response team and a helicopter to accost the "man with a gun".
Mr pigeon shooter is well inconvenienced, Mr trespasser is not in the least inconvenienced.

Our shooting organisations are trying to turn things around and would probably appreciate the help of someone of your experience.

This is a culture thing. The more accessible it is to hunt which includes areas to hunt, the more people will hunt. The more people hunt, the more socially acceptable it becomes. If somebody goes into the forest expecting to see somebody hunting they will be less likely to be frightened. Deer stalkers have been known to give venison to bushwalkers at camps as a sign of good will. I've done it myself. You would be surprised how many people are keen to learn more.

When I lived in another state, if people saw a person in the country with a gun they were likely to call the police. Where I live now, I've had people approach me seeing I was in a hunting party with a gun and ask us to get rid of a fox under the hay shed etc. The main reason I put it down to is that far more people hunt in Victoria and its not a big deal, its just hunters going around their business.

 

[Hereford]

In NSW they have some equivalent to game wardens. Very nice fellows, met a few of them during large organised driven hunts for foxes in pine forests. They are at the pointy end of enforcement.

That would be the moot point - it would have to be regulated and it would be a challenge for the shooting community itself, let alone the anti's and liberal do-gooders wading into the fray too....

The only thing I can see that we can still regulate successfully in this country is social injustice and inequality - and perpetuate fear through ignorance - shame really, most people are quite clever and react impartially when presented with facts.....

 

[mchughcb]

This was a landmark report into the economic benefit from hunting. For such little government outlay the benefits to the state are huge. This is what is presented to both sides of parliament as the facts which neither side disputes now. Its a big win in the right direction and will require a big please explain should anybody go down the path of PC BS, because the PC is with the economics at this point in time.


http://www.depi.vic.gov.au/fishing-and-hunting/game-hunting/economic-impact-of-hunting

 

[mchughcb]

That would be the moot point - it would have to be regulated and it would be a challenge for the shooting community itself, let alone the anti's and liberal do-gooders wading into the fray too ...QUOTE]

There is nothing more satisfying than watching guys like this get their 15 minutes reduced to 1.5 minutes of fame over time with a free ride in the divvy van with a charge sheet to boot.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/archive...rie-levy-charged/story-fn7x8me2-1226302381913

 

[private fraser]

All I can say to most of your comments is....well the UK ain't Oz!.
As for your comments about Socialist leaning government and the poll tax..I thought we were talking about stalking ?.

 

[mchughcb]

I was hoping to have a progressive discussion but I was called a control freak socialist. Anyway back to the discussion.

Do we have any discussion about hunting rights in Italy, would these be more applicable?

I have not hunted while in Italy, but have seen a few documentaries. Everything is okay as long as you are 100m from a house. Their population density is right up there with the UK.

https://www.justlanded.com/english/Italy/Articles/Travel-Leisure/Hunting-in-Italy