Jo'burg with firearms with Virgin

Reading all of your experiences with having to bribe people to just do their jobs reminded me of why I will always go to Namibia. I have had 2 trips to S.A. and quite honestly all that crap at the airport is not a good start to a holiday. My first trip resulted in a missed flight to East London and the second was little better even paying the bribes.
I will always go to Namibia, crickey they dont even expect a tip.
The attached document is all you need to take your rifles in to Namibia, along with your FAC and letter of invite.
Tusker

Flown to J/burg 3 times with Virgin who were very good as an airline. Your list covers most things however the key thing you need is a Temporary Export letter fro Border Force U.K. You email them with all the details you have listed and in circa 10-15 days they will send this through, without this you can’t use a meet and greet agent in SA. I have never used an agent, I did all the paperwork myself and have never been in the Jburg police station longer than 30 minutes, however allow a minimum couple of hours in case of flight delays

Touch wood out of 9 trips to East London, only once have been stung for a bribe and that was my fault for not check my FAC to make sure the rifle serial number matched

Selous said:

On the way out of Joberg my PH told me that the guy who couriered the cases through the airport would work us for a bribe by saying that he would be the only person responsible for our case’s getting on the plane. We were advised to answer that we look forward to picking the cases up in Heathrow but give no bribe. All went well, cases loaded fine and no bribe given.

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Yep I've met him as well lol

tusker said:

Reading all of your experiences with having to bribe people to just do their jobs reminded me of why I will always go to Namibia. I have had 2 trips to S.A. and quite honestly all that crap at the airport is not a good start to a holiday. My first trip resulted in a missed flight to East London and the second was little better even paying the bribes.
I will always go to Namibia, crickey they dont even expect a tip.
The attached document is all you need to take your rifles in to Namibia, along with your FAC and letter of invite.
Tusker

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Not been to Namibia in four years. How easy is it to take your own rifle these days?

tusker said:

Reading all of your experiences with having to bribe people to just do their jobs reminded me of why I will always go to Namibia. I have had 2 trips to S.A. and quite honestly all that crap at the airport is not a good start to a holiday. My first trip resulted in a missed flight to East London and the second was little better even paying the bribes.
I will always go to Namibia, crickey they dont even expect a tip.
The attached document is all you need to take your rifles in to Namibia, along with your FAC and letter of invite.
Tusker

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^^^^
This

Namibia have their act together in a way that SA once did.

I have had 4 safaris in SA.

My last two trips were to Namibia. My next will be Namibia too.

MJ75 said:

Not been to Namibia in four years. How easy is it to take your own rifle these days?

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Absolute doddle. [my last trip was November 2021]

Just one firearm import form which you complete at the airport on arrival and you need to produce a letter from your in-country PH detailing your invitation [where, what, how long, etc]

The required wording of the PH invitation letter was in a state of change around the time I travelled, and the PH was not familiar with the new wording but satisfied the officials at WDH verbally. I guess all PHs now know the right syntax to tick officialdom boxes.

[Do not lose the import form as you need to surrender that on exit from the country.]

zambezi said:

Absolute doddle. [my last trip was November 2021]

Just one firearm import form which you complete at the airport on arrival and you need to produce a letter from your in-country PH detailing your invitation [where, what, how long, etc]

The required wording of the PH invitation letter was in a state of change around the time I travelled, and the PH was not familiar with the new wording but satisfied the officials at WDH verbally. I guess all PHs now know the right syntax to tick officialdom boxes.

[Do not lose the import form as you need to surrender that on exit from the country.]

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Sorry, I've not explained myself well there at all.

What I really meant was how easy is it to fly there with a rifle these days?

Specifically, what airlines leaving the UK will allow you to fly to Jo'burg with a connecting flight to Windhoek with your own firearms?

MJ75 said:

Sorry, I've not explained myself well there at all.

What I really meant was how easy is it to fly there with a rifle these days?

Specifically, what airlines leaving the UK will allow you to fly to Jo'burg with a connecting flight to Windhoek with your own firearms?

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I think your options are either Lufthansa connecting in Frankfurt, Ethiopian via Addis Ababa (supposed to be very good) or Qatar, all of which avoid Johannesburg completely.

Lufthansa do not allow firearms if flying from or to Scotland and some of the English airports.

Your other option is Emirates, BA (not great, I am told) or Virgin via Johannesburg, then Airlink onwards. Airlink are the best Airline I have flown with, although I haven't done a lot of flying.

I have just booked and Lufthansa were the quickest and cheapest.

MJ75 said:

What I really meant was how easy is it to fly there with a rifle these days?

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I have been worn down by the traumas of travelling with rifles.

Last time (ours went missing) we relied on the Camp rifles - not terrible, and did not adversely affect the trip.

However, two of our four, travelled with their 'Doubles' and so they did need to do so (no Double Rifles in Camp).

Not being wealthy enough to tote a "Double", I am fairly settled in the view that in any future trips, I will just use the Camp rifles and save myself the agg. of dragging the damn thing through airports, security, Police, Customs, Import/Export, paperwork, facilitation fees, "Meet & Greet" fees (bribes), weight limits, and so on.



If my FEO is reading this...of course I am taking my own .416 next time...

MJ75 said:

Specifically, what airlines leaving the UK will allow you to fly to Jo'burg with a connecting flight to Windhoek with your own firearms?

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I last used Ethiopian. Below are the details of that trip. Ethiopian LHR-WDH via Addis is do-able. With caveats...

Selous said:

On the way out of Joberg my PH told me that the guy who couriered the cases through the airport would work us for a bribe by saying that he would be the only person responsible for our case’s getting on the plane. We were advised to answer that we look forward to picking the cases up in Heathrow but give no bribe. All went well, cases loaded fine and no bribe given.

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We had the same person,Told him that’s fine because if your the only person we only have to come back and find you then.Same thing no bribe and cases etc arrived no problem.

Heres the information from Gov.uk regarding exporting firearms for personal use

Exceptions for certificate or permit holders​

Article 16 of the Order provides an exception for the export of firearms as personal effects from the UK to countries outside the EU.

You do not normally need an export licence to take or send the following items overseas if they are for personal use and part of your personal effects:

• firearms
• shotguns
• related ammunition and sights (non-electronic image enhancement)

This only applies if you have either a valid certificate or visitor’s permit for your firearm or shotgun.

You must have the relevant items entered on the certificate. The certificates and items must be ready to be presented by the holder, or their appointed agent, to an HMRC officer at the place of export.

From reading that I am surprised you need to apply to Border Force for a temporary export letter? Is that not what is issued to you at the point of embarkation ?

Dorsettaff said:

I am surprised you need to apply to Border Force for a temporary export letter?

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My experience is that SA like to see a Border Force temporary export letter and that Namibia only need to see your FAC and a letter of invitation.

I.e. the BF temp export letter is not a UK requirement, but some destination police forces like to see one.

BF letter is only a South African Police requirement and if you don’t have one then SAP gun permit

Morning All,

Just returned from a trip to the Eastern Cape with Virgin/Airlink.

In summary we got the rifles there and back without too many hiccups.

Leaving London was no problem. Checked in with Virgin desk as normal...filled in a Declaration of Weapons or Ammunition in Baggage form and a Declaration of Surrender of Firearms for ICTS (baggage handling).
Rifles taken from check in desk to Customs who issued a stamped certificate of Export (which can be obtained before hand from Border Force but took 2 minutes to produce at Heathrow). Rifles were then taken and loaded .

Arrived at Jo'Burg. Went to SAPS Office in corner of Terminal B (well sign posted). Presented our SAP 520 Form pre-filled in but not signed, copy of our tickets/boarding passes and Certificate of Export........Rifles checked... Temporary Import Permit obtained.

Rifles taken to Airlink Desk......I had prebooked their carriage before we left with Airlink who were very helpful. Cost was ZAR 1150 return JNB to ELS..... Taken by Eagle Eye security to domestic Firearms Transfer and rifle checked against Temp Import Permit.

Rifles taken and loaded....next seem at East London...where again they were checked serial number against Temp Import Permit and then released.

Return journey should have been the same but due to a cock up at East London where both our suitcases were checked in to one passenger and checked through to London Heathrow, we had a issue with the rifles as baggage in Jo'Burg (The rifles could not be checked straight through to Heathrow from East London). Ended up having to pay excess baggage of ZAR 4975 to get the rifles on the plane.

Things to remember....this is South Africa and although you are surrounded by signs saying "Stamp out Corruption & Bribery"......there is an expectation from everyone you deal with who handles and checks the rifles for a "tip".

Whilst no money changed hands, it seems that everyone from Warrant Officers in the SAPS department to Eagle Eye security likes chocolate! Funny that !

The trip to Huntershill Game Reserve was awesome. 16 animals over 4 days between 2 of us in glorious weather and jaw dropping scenery!

I’m Now stocking up on chocolate .

I am just back from a trip to SA. I flew with Virgin from LHR to JNB and travelled with a rifle.

First up: this was my easiest transit of the SAP process at JNB ever. Really efficient, completed per the book. Temporary SA FAC issued in quick order. Sub 20 mins?

Transiting from JNB International [Terminal A] to domestic [Terminal B] is always a bit of a walk, but do-able in sub 15 mins.

Not all domestic carriers take firearms any more. Airlink carried my firearm from JNB to PLZ. They currently levy a charge of R575 per firearm per journey. [ammo goes free] R575 is approx £23. For that, your firearm is loaded on the planes by contractors called Eagle Eye. [from the lounge you can see their bakkie deliver the fiream to the airplanes loading bay and watch handlers load into hold] It is a fair price for what was a repeatably good experience at PLZ, CPT and finally JNB.

One more anecdote worth sharing from last month's use of Airlink for domestic flights in South Africa:

Step one is that you take bags and rifle to the domestic baggage check in desk. Bags and rifle [and ammo case] are tagged. Bags go in hold, Eagle Eye contractor enters firearm and ammo details in register and then escorts firearm onto plane separately.

At the point you check your bags in, the Airlink check-in staffer will annotate your boarding card with "firearm". In PLZ I was then directed to make payment [R575] for the firearms carriage at the adjacent desk. All good.

In CPT, all of the above happened but I was not directed to any payment desk after check-in. Indeed, Airlink do not have an info booth anywhere near the check-in area. So we proceeded to security and thence to the boarding gate. As we were boarding, I was advised that my ticket was not valid! Lots of frantic checks later, it turns out that after bag drop, I was supposed to have traversed the terminal to make the firearm carriage payment in another location before going through security!

There was no card machine at the boarding gate. But they took a cash payment and waived me onto the plane. Phew. If I did not have cash...

With Safair you pay for the gun carriage when you book and pay for your ticket.

This is also entered on your flight ticket So no hassle at the checking desk.