Import marks on new rifles

[truser00]

Having never bought a brand new production rifle, I am very curious to know if all the components on newly imported rifles like Remingtons, Howas, Tikkas etc are marked with the information below, except the bolt.

I am finding myself in a position where a collectable rifle I have had imported from abroad must be marked with all the information below, despite it being of UK origin when manufactured and proofed. Every pressure bearing component retains their original London proof marks. I personally know more about the rifle than the importer as I have researched into it upon winning the auction abroad, but the importer does not.

I have never seen a bolt action rifle with the calibre marked on the action. The calibre of an action and bolt is not fixed - is calibre therefore deemed to be only relevant information for barrels?

How can the importer of an old second hand rifle be expected to know the country and manufacturer of the barrel? It is visibly not of UK origin, some will recognise immediately where it's from.

 

[enfieldspares]

I am finding myself in a position where a collectable rifle I have had imported from abroad must be marked with all the information below, despite it being of UK origin when manufactured and proofed.

Basically it's BS. The Proof Act ONLY applies to weapons imported for sale or for display for sale. It does NOT apply to guns brought in personally by yourself that you do not intend to sell or display for sale. That is the law! The Proof House know this and a suitably worded email or telephone call will confirm this.

A Small Arm shall not be sold or exchanged, or be attempted to be sold or exchanged, or be exposed or kept for Sale or Exchange, or be exported or attempted to be exported or be kept for Exportation, unless and until the Barrel or every Barrel thereof has been duly proved at the Proof House or a Branch Proof House of either of the Two Companies, or some other public Proof House established by Law, and duly marked as proved.

A Small Arm shall not be pawned or pledged, or be attempted to be pawned or pledged, or taken in Pawn or Pledge, unless and until the Barrel or every Barrel thereof has been duly proved at the Proof House or a Branch Proof House of either of the Two Companies, or some other public Proof House established by Law, and duly marked as proved.

 

[truser00]

I am finding myself in a position where a collectable rifle I have had imported from abroad must be marked with all the information below, despite it being of UK origin when manufactured and proofed.

Basically it's BS. The Proof Act ONLY applies to weapons imported for sale or for display for sale. It does NOT apply to guns brought in personally by yourself that you do not intend to sell or display for sale. That is the law! The Proof House know this and a suitably worded email or telephone call will confirm this.

A Small Arm shall not be sold or exchanged, or be attempted to be sold or exchanged, or be exposed or kept for Sale or Exchange, or be exported or attempted to be exported or be kept for Exportation, unless and until the Barrel or every Barrel thereof has been duly proved at the Proof House or a Branch Proof House of either of the Two Companies, or some other public Proof House established by Law, and duly marked as proved.

A Small Arm shall not be pawned or pledged, or be attempted to be pawned or pledged, or taken in Pawn or Pledge, unless and until the Barrel or every Barrel thereof has been duly proved at the Proof House or a Branch Proof House of either of the Two Companies, or some other public Proof House established by Law, and duly marked as proved.

Thanks, I thought you'd know something about this.

This is actually about import marks, not proof marks. Luckily the rifle is already proofed, as it was when it left the UK in 1987 as a new rifle. I used a broker to ship the rifle as part of a larger shipment of other people's rifles too. All cleared through his customs agent onto his RFD if that's any help. I think this all falls under Open General Import Licence legislation which is where my screengrabs are from.

I just struggle to see how all of that information can be obtained for old firearms or is even relevant. I believe those markings are required to assist with a section in the Firearms Rules for dealers and what information they must record in their books. The below clearly contradicts OGIL where calibre is associated with a complete firearm, rather than component specific.

 

[enfieldspares]

Explanatory note: open general import licence (OGIL)

www.gov.uk

I would say that the "of historical importance" exclusion may need to be looked at by you to see if it applies?

 

[truser00]

Explanatory note: open general import licence (OGIL)

www.gov.uk

Yes that is the doc I am referring to.

1. Entry 5 of Annex 1 prohibits, subject to specified exclusions, the importation or transfer into the United Kingdom of firearms and any relevant component parts (whether part of a firearm or not), unless each such firearm, and any relevant component parts, have clearly and permanently been marked with the relevant information specified below, and set out for Great Britain, in paragraph 2(aa) of Part IV to Schedule 5 of the Firearms Rules 1998, or for Northern Ireland, in Para. 6 (b), of Schedule 3 to the Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 2004.

Where it says "relevant information", is it not implying that not all the bullet pointed information must be present on all components? Only those that are relevant. An action as a component is not associated with a calibre therefore not relevant?... Hence my main overarching question of: do new production rifles imported from abroad have all those markings on the action?

In fact, the GTA say outright that unknown information cannot be included.

 

[enfieldspares]

I would say that the "of historical importance" exclusion may need to be looked at by you to see if it applies? Also you may get help from some of the auction houses in the UK that do import weapons for sale, by auction, here in the UK and/or the importers of such as Ruger, Remington, Miroku and other "in a land far away" made stuff. And now having watched the late news I am off to bed!

 

[John Gryphon]

from some of the auction houses in the UK that do import weapons for sale

firearms Richard,always firearms,never weapons.

 

[truser00]

I would say that the "of historical importance" exclusion may need to be looked at by you to see if it applies? Also you may get help from some of the auction houses in the UK that do import weapons for sale, by auction, here in the UK and/or the importers of such as Ruger, Remington, Miroku and other "in a land far away" made stuff. And now having watched the late news I am off to bed!

Thanks again, historical importance could potentially be a consideration. I initially overlooked this as it seemed to only apply to guns made before 1919 but apparently not. I imagine the importer will look at me funny, as he probably usually deals in more expensive and grander things, but I do not see it to be unreasonable, especially when fewer than 2-300 exist, far fewer than L39s, No8s and such.

 

[enfieldspares]

Thanks again, historical importance could potentially be a consideration. I initially overlooked this as it seemed to only apply to guns made before 1919 but apparently not. I imagine the importer will look at me funny, as he probably usually deals in more expensive and grander things, but I do not see it to be unreasonable, especially when fewer than 2-300 exist, far fewer than L39s, No8s and such.

I think that yes, historical importance is now very potent. It has changed from being pre-1919 as....see You Tube...both the Imperial War Museum and the Royal Armouries at Leeds have Smith & Wesson Model 10 revolvers carried by officers at the Lockerbie Trial.

Also things such as the Parker Hale M85 may be historically important as having been submissions to the sniper rifle trials.

Ditto the Royal Navy .22LR training rifles made on the No4 (of which Edna Parker had one in her shop in one of the display cabinets. So anything connected with trials of "Enfield" may be worth a punt to see if it is an exception. For that you might indeed write to the Imperial War Museum and the Royal Armouries.

Enclose a stamped addressed envelope as a courtesy and do not ask for a valuation as a) they won't give one and b) it suggests you want their advice for commercial benefit not from an interest in the nature of the thing from the viewpoint of a person interest in such an item.

Best of luck!