No you have not
Lead - EU Reach Meeting/Proposal
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Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Copper is only toxic in very large quantities. Copper is an essential element to life and is a fundamental part of every day metabolism. Without copper you will die very quickly.
Hardly mate, have a read of it again. Its PROVEN people die from everything I've mentioned yet no recorded deaths in the UK from lead poisoning from eating lead shot game?
mental that 
it's almost as if you're wrong 
I also do not believe I'm in a small minority whatsoever. There's literally thousands of people who disagree with it, all you need to do is look at social media and here
There's a handful of you banging the same drum and unsurprisingly, refusing to listen to any other valid discussion.
And no, you may be done arguing, I am not actually arguing, merely pointing out you're spouting your usual rubbish as per.
Again, this is much more than lead is bad. This is a nail in the shooters coffin and if YOU can't see that, so be it. More fool you
You say other heavy metals but don’t seem to be campaigning against them ?
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
Indeed, other heavy metals such as the mercury contained in lots of the fish and seafood we eat. Risks are mitigated by following guidance on consumption, why the same can’t be done for lead I really don’t know
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
If you eat a piece of Tuna you are potentially exposing yourself to heavy metals. Those metals are in its flesh mostly due to human activity pollution - mostly as a result of industrial pollution.
When you shoot a shotgun or rifle you are adding to the overall levels of pollution. This can cause immediate harm to those creatures that eat that shot game or its remains. Shot will also go into the soils where it will react with other compounds in the soil and be taken up in crops or it may leach out into rivers and then out to sea where it may one day end up in piece of tuna that ends up some one elses plate.
More likely that pollution will end up in much smaller organisms that are then eaten by other wildlife resulting in failures to breed and collapse of populations.
You might have noticed loss of many wading birds that eat lots of small invertebrates in the soil. Research has shown that woodcock are suffering from high levels of lead in their blood, and we wonder why numbers are plummeting. Salmon numbers are crashing.
Our governments are trying to reverse centuries of industrial levels of pollution, something I fundamentally support.
Yet the likes of yourself don’t believe that lead does any harm and are quite happy to continue polluting our own little planet despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Got to be a few people knocking around who've survived being shot and have lead bullets/bullet fragments or lead shot in them, especially in the WWII generation.
Would be curious to see what proportion die/died from lead toxicity or from supposedly linked conditions and how their average lifespan compared to others who had similar lifestyles minus the lead.
What was/is biodiversity like in Flanders fields?
Would be curious to see what proportion die/died from lead toxicity or from supposedly linked conditions and how their average lifespan compared to others who had similar lifestyles minus the lead.
What was/is biodiversity like in Flanders fields?
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
Very swift pivot away from human health being the reason for the lead ban,
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Nope, human health along with much wider health of the environment is the reason for much of the environmental legislation that is being brought in.Very swift pivot away from human health being the reason for the lead ban,
But likes of yourself will never understand this, and that’s why a complete ban is being brought in. If the Government thought that the shooting community could be trusted, you would have a derogation to continue using lead in arms of over 100 years old.
But forums such as this and comments from many have resulted in a complete ban.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
You do know that you can get sick from lead poisoning without actually dying?Hardly mate, have a read of it again. Its PROVEN people die from everything I've mentioned yet no recorded deaths in the UK from lead poisoning from eating lead shot game?
You, and your intransigent fellow travellers are a greater threat to shooting than any other group.I also do not believe I'm in a small minority whatsoever. There's literally thousands of people who disagree with it, all you need to do is look at social media and here
There's a handful of you banging the same drum and unsurprisingly, refusing to listen to any other valid discussion.
And no, you may be done arguing, I am not actually arguing, merely pointing out you're spouting your usual rubbish as per.
Again, this is much more than lead is bad. This is a nail in the shooters coffin and if YOU can't see that, so be it. More fool you
Have a nice day.
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Woodenbeam
Well-Known Member
Whatever newsagent you’re getting your Sunday Sport or Express paper from I’d cancel the subscription.
I’d recommend a dose of lead just to add a bitta ballast and bring you back to earth from the lofty heights you reside in.
Maybe stick to the alcohol free stuff in the evening just to keep ya thoughts in check & for christs sake, for the good of us all don’t vote labour again
In that case is it not open to a judicial review given we are in this situation due to the lack of enforcement of current laws on using lead.
If the lead ban subsequently goes on to result in a significant decline in participation in shooting in this county with gun shops and clay grounds closing. Just may be then when the very few business remaining are charging you £30 or £40 a round to stay in business to shoot your deer and a 100 mile plus trip to buy it, you may reflect on your selfish view.
No need to import for reloading as volume of sales will not justify the high cost of importing dangerous goods especially propellant and ammunition above .243 likewise will be a niche market.
We all need each other.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Commercial shooting has a lot to answer for, and those that participate.
The days when large estates can hide their glutenous consumption of slaughter are over and it's caught up with them.
If it had remained modest and city bankers told to f off non of this would of happened!
Basic are serving their masters, the city bankers and such like!
In my humble opinion of course.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
But nevertheless it remains as a contaminant in estuarine mud, on the hulls of older vessels and as a contaminant of the new copper based anti-fouling, EU limit 12,000 ppm. The WHO of course considers that there is "no safe level of lead" which I'm afraid gets us back to what is lacking in this whole matter, a sense of proportionality.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Apparently no A&E admissions due to poisoning from lead shot either!Hardly mate, have a read of it again. Its PROVEN people die from everything I've mentioned yet no recorded deaths in the UK from lead poisoning from eating lead shot game?
I also do not believe I'm in a small minority whatsoever. There's literally thousands of people who disagree with it, all you need to do is look at social media and here
There's a handful of you banging the same drum and unsurprisingly, refusing to listen to any other valid discussion.
And no, you may be done arguing, I am not actually arguing, merely pointing out you're spouting your usual rubbish as per.
Again, this is much more than lead is bad. This is a nail in the shooters coffin and if YOU can't see that, so be it. More fool you
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Not Daily Express, but studies on North American Woodcock by scientists in Wisconsin, also references done in Italy.
Such studies are time consuming and expensive to do. It why there have not been many done in the UK. It really is kind of worrying when a bird like a wood cock is getting poisoned with lead. You can understand say a partridge picking up lead pellets thinking its grit, but with woodcock, they will be lead toxins from worms etc thst in turn have been poisoned by lead in the soil.
American Woodcock Accumulate Lead According to Study
Research points towards the negative impacts of lead ammunition on American woodcock in a Wisconsin study isolating lead toxins.
projectupland.com
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
With all due respect it was your good self that introduced the "N" word into this discussion "We don’t actually need to shoot game"
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Woodcock face a number of challenges, do you remember all that scaremongering centred around the Chernobyl nuclear reactor fire and warnings not to eat them in case they were radioactive? I ignored the warnings, I'm still here, and so still is the woodcock, as a species at least, the ones that I shot were eaten years ago.Not Daily Express, but studies on North American Woodcock by scientists in Wisconsin, also references done in Italy.
Such studies are time consuming and expensive to do. It why there have not been many done in the UK. It really is kind of worrying when a bird like a wood cock is getting poisoned with lead. You can understand say a partridge picking up lead pellets thinking its grit, but with woodcock, they will be lead toxins from worms etc thst in turn have been poisoned by lead in the soil.
American Woodcock Accumulate Lead According to Study
Research points towards the negative impacts of lead ammunition on American woodcock in a Wisconsin study isolating lead toxins.
Study found highest levels in young birds and didn't conclude it was a one off year- which actually suggests that they are able to excrete/remove lead from their bodies rather than long term accumulation. Also no shot in the birds at all so theorised they eat it but can pass it out but did not evidence these assumptions beyond 'this must have happened'. Lots of theorising, raises a few questions rather than concrete proof it's from shooting. At least they didn't do it in Southern Wisconsin though.Not Daily Express, but studies on North American Woodcock by scientists in Wisconsin, also references done in Italy.
Such studies are time consuming and expensive to do. It why there have not been many done in the UK. It really is kind of worrying when a bird like a wood cock is getting poisoned with lead. You can understand say a partridge picking up lead pellets thinking its grit, but with woodcock, they will be lead toxins from worms etc thst in turn have been poisoned by lead in the soil.
American Woodcock Accumulate Lead According to Study
Research points towards the negative impacts of lead ammunition on American woodcock in a Wisconsin study isolating lead toxins.
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