Shotgun certificate revoked due to cancer

PEM406 said:

Hi All
Thanks for all the great comments. Some very hard stories in this thread and I am sorry for those who have been through such experiences but grateful for them being shared. Also good to hear from those who had a positive outcome. Thank you.

I got some more information which I thought I’d share. I’ve also now left it with my neighbour to decide how they want to proceed, based on a summary of points raised here. I still don’t have the full picture but getting more detail would require me going into details they may not want to share with me. Their call, of course and I’ve offered to help if they need it.

Further info is that they had a visit from the FEO last year when their partner’s shotgun cert was up for renewal. At that point they said to the FEO they’d had a tough year due to the cancer and that was apparently discussed.

They had surgery which has since apparently resolved the cancer. Not sure if they are in remission yet but are back working in frontline healthcare, driving, etc. and very active.

The welfare visit was apparently triggered from that visit last year. Partners shotgun cert was renewed without issue and it was just a few weeks ago that the FEO came to see my neighbour.

Shotguns not removed as given into the care of the partner. No written explanation of revocation given nor any formal notification other than visit from armed officers to remove the guns, or hand them to another certificate holder.

Very odd but it’s now with my neighbour to decide how to proceed. Suggested they write a clear timeline of events so they can see if any reason becomes apparent. Also ask for notice of reason in writing and potentially approach their GP to effectively re-do their normal health declaration.

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Unfortunately the only way to procede now is through appeal and this is time limited. Is your neighbour a member of fieldsport Britain. As mentioned the process should be vs both parties. Revocation leaves little negotiations by any chance was this out of hours revocation. Ive known ops room managers failing to follow policy and procedure and just simply send an arv.

Jeff8861 said:

Unfortunately as we know it all depends on how risk overt the force dealing is and how they view guidance.
However a couple of points.
For me this should have been reported with a caveat. What type of cancer what treatment and what prognosis. What info has the fld received. Remember the low mood scenario that gp uses. Ultimately who goes to the doctors happy so be careful what you say in jest in front of doctors

I managed lots of people with various types of cancers. They were not revoked but managed especially terminally ill holders. Shooting in general is great distraction and keeping thier certs was vital. Ive found if your open and transparent you shouldn't have any issues.
Back to this there was no need to revoke unless the holder refused to vs. Vs is the best way to procede it gives all involved time to asses and offer solutions.

I know a force that threatened to revoke unless a holder vs whilst he had routine cancer surgery. He wasnt distressed or showed any signs of anxiety. However he was bullied by his force. I wrote a letter highlighting legislation guidance amd process. The reply was shocking" we are more risk overt than other forces". This breached the legislation but they were not bothered.

Ultimately we need the full facts and circumstances.

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The HO guidelines mean nothing to them

I am a few weeks late to this thread, however I was diagnosed with Stage 3b bowel cancer in 2024. I only held a SGC at the time. I didn’t notify my FEO of my diagnosis, nor did I feel it was my duty to, as cancer is not a “notifiable illness”. What is notifiable could be the affects of treatment or an altered mental state as a result of a diagnosis, which wasn’t relevant in my case.

Mentally my diagnosis didn’t affect me, which during various appointments I was very open about, side effect wise, I just had severe nausea from chemo, which again, I was never behind the door about.

I was very open with both my GP, surgeon and oncologist about my involvement in shooting/field sports and they were aware that I held firearms. The only advice I was given was don’t pick up game, the risk of infection is too high!

When my FAC was granted my FEO asked me how I’d been since I’d last seen her and I told the story of my diagnosis etc and I got a funny look. She said she would have expected my Dr to notify them, but if they hadn’t they mustn’t have deemed that I wasn’t a risk to myself.

She said if I had notified them, all it would have been was a visit, a discussion about my treatment and a bit of a home environment check to see if I was coping (not living in squalor, getting dressed, excessive drinking etc signs of depression basically) and that would have been it.

A seizure and refusal to return a certificate seems quite drastic if there are no concerns raised by GPs and Oncologists…..all who are aware that their patient has access to firearms!

Jeebs said:

I am a few weeks late to this thread, however I was diagnosed with Stage 3b bowel cancer in 2024. I only held a SGC at the time. I didn’t notify my FEO of my diagnosis, nor did I feel it was my duty to, as cancer is not a “notifiable illness”. What is notifiable could be the affects of treatment or an altered mental state as a result of a diagnosis, which wasn’t relevant in my case.

Mentally my diagnosis didn’t affect me, which during various appointments I was very open about, side effect wise, I just had severe nausea from chemo, which again, I was never behind the door about.

I was very open with both my GP, surgeon and oncologist about my involvement in shooting/field sports and they were aware that I held firearms. The only advice I was given was don’t pick up game, the risk of infection is too high!

When my FAC was granted my FEO asked me how I’d been since I’d last seen her and I told the story of my diagnosis etc and I got a funny look. She said she would have expected my Dr to notify them, but if they hadn’t they mustn’t have deemed that I was a risk to myself.

She said if I had notified them, all it would have been was a visit, a discussion about my treatment and a bit of a home environment check to see if I was coping (not living in squalor, getting dressed, excessive drinking etc signs of depression basically) and that would have been it.

A seizure and refusal to return a certificate seems quite drastic if there are no concerns raised by GPs and Oncologists…..all who are aware that their patient has access to firearms!

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thanks for sharing and sorry to hear about your diagnosis.

I did get some more detail.

Official notification was not provided. It should have been handed over by the firearms officers when they came to confiscate the shotguns but they didn’t.

My neighbour got a copy via email after contacting the firearms team to ask about it.

In short the revocation was due to the fact that my neighbour refused to share detailed information with the FEO about their diagnosis and treatment. Their reason for doing this was that they are a member of frontline NHS staff themselves and did not feel that the FEO should be asking for that sort of detail as they aren’t qualified to make a medical assessment. They didn’t have an issue with their medical situation being checked but they felt it should be done through their doctors and so they did provide the FEO with details of their GP and Consultant.

Could have been handled another way but I can also see their point of view. I know the ultimate decision lies with the FEO / Chief Constable but I also don’t feel it is right for them to make a decision on medical grounds without first getting an opinion from the patient’s doctors.

The thing is that the report from the FEO then also had inaccurate statements, such as my neighbour saying that they were having trouble coping, etc. That was never said and was a complete fabrication given their actual condition. I know others have said that you can never tell but they don’t show any of the signs that @Jeebs mentioned and are in fact recovering well ()

End result my neighbour is writing back to challenge the inaccurate statements in the notice and explain the situation. Probably won’t succeed but they aren’t really too fussed about their own licence as they haven’t shot in a couple of years. The reason for the letter back is to set the record straight about their frame of
mind, in case it becomes an issue for their partner’s certificate.

HonestJohn said:

I don’t recall anywhere on a renewal or variation where it’s stipulated you have to tell them of such illnesses, more to do with mental illnesses etc. perhaps he made an off the cuff remark to a nurse or doctor that could have been seen as suffering from depression and was marked and reported. How dare you disclose you are anxious or depressed from
Having cancer! Christ!

To be honest, if he recovers, I’m sure he’ll be able to get his certificate back, it’s not the end of the world, he’s got bigger fish to fry just now than going shooting I imagine.

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Or maybe getting out over the fields with gun and dog for the last few times might be the bet medicine ever!

EMcC said:

I had a heart attack shortly followed by bowel cancer and then appendicitis followed by an umbilical hernia and to top it all a month after I completed my Chemo sessions my wife of 62 years, passed away all within 14 months,
I was not aware of anything affecting the ownerI ship of my FC but I did have a nurse ring me periodically 'just to see how I was managing'
She did mention my hobby and asked if I had been shooting or had my guns out to clean during our conversations and the answer was always no.
She rang me every couple of weeks for quite a while and eventually I found out she was a mental health nurse.
When I found out, the next time she phoned me I told her that I now knew she was the Doo Lally nurse and asked if she was checking on me to make sure I didn't do anything stupid.
It was after that call that the next one was a face to face appointment and that was my last contact.
I suppose that was one way of checking to see if the possession of firearms was likely to used inappropriately, probably on myself.

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Talk about a rough time! I'm truly sorry for your loss! All the best

Trigger260 said:

Or maybe getting out over the fields with gun and dog for the last few times might be the bet medicine ever!

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It would have done me the world of good, even if it was just to have a kip in a high seat but I was in such a state I couldn't even lift a large milk carton, were it not for my wife I don't know how I would have managed. Even after being cleared I still had a lot of building up to do and then losing my wife on top I was really in a deep state.
Luckily my mad grand daughter visited me twice a week and were it not for her I would have sunk even deeper.
All is well now but it just goes to show how much the medical profession know about firearm owners and how they act regarding the person.

bluesako said:

it seems you get your ticket revoked now if you get sick

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Hell, you get your ticket revoked for even thinking about getting a hard on these days! Any excuse goes

EMcC said:

It would have done me the world of good, even if it was just to have a kip in a high seat but I was in such a state I couldn't even lift a large milk carton, were it not for my wife I don't know how I would have managed. Even after being cleared I still had a lot of building up to do and then losing my wife on top I was really in a deep state.
Luckily my mad grand daughter visited me twice a week and were it not for her I would have sunk even deeper.
All is well now but it just goes to show how much the medical profession know about firearm owners and how they act regarding the person.

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Thank god your wife was with you when you needed her the most! I'm sure she'll be looking down with pride, watching your mad granddaughter taking the reigns!
Take care

I’ve just had a thought and went back and had a look at my FAC grant application. When I put it in, I was still undergoing treatment for my cancer and I did actually list this on the application.

I got my medical form done by the doctor, he made not one mention that I had been diagnosed with or that I was being treated for cancer.

Clearly my local licensing department didn’t actually read the forms otherwise they would have been aware!

I have sat and thought about this issue and I think I’m with many others on the forum. I don’t think the issue is cancer or notifying the FLD of it, I think it’s the unwillingness to engage in a discussion about it, the treatment plan and generally how things are going. That was the wrong approach.

From an assessment of risk perspective, I think the old spidey senses might start tingling at that point.

HonestJohn said:

Hell, you get your ticket revoked for even thinking about getting a hard on these days! Any excuse goes

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Oh they were the days

Jeebs said:

I have sat and thought about this issue and I think I’m with many others on the forum. I don’t think the issue is cancer or notifying the FLD of it, I think it’s the unwillingness to engage in a discussion about it, the treatment plan and generally how things are going. That was the wrong approach.

From an assessment of risk perspective, I think the old spidey senses might start tingling at that point.

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I agree with this 100%.
It’s similar in a way to not disclosing a speeding ticket at renewal (or grant). In itself the ticket isn’t necessarily a problem but they see it as a major problem if it’s not disclosed on the application

palmer_mike said:

I agree with this 100%.
It’s similar in a way to not disclosing a speeding ticket at renewal (or grant). In itself the ticket isn’t necessarily a problem but they see it as a major problem if it’s not disclosed on the application

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I do agree. I’d have handled it differently but I’m perhaps more aware having been through FAC grants and renewals. Also not naturally inclined to refuse any question they ask.

On the other hand I also think there is a problem in principle with the firearms teams making judgement on medical matters without a doctor providing input. Should have triggered a question to the GP not an immediate revocation.

I actually think they are under a lot of pressure, under resourced and under trained. I wouldn’t want their job. However I think the system would work better if there were more balance in terms of having to follow rules to the same degree of diligence. However maybe that’s because we only have to deal with having a licence or not, they have to deal with the consequences of a bad decision or missing something.