DSC2

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Chris Richardson said:
@tjm160 I’ve asked several times why you hold the dsc manual in such high regard and why you get so wound up if someone dares speak against your beloved courses , you yourself have admitted that your experience is very very limited , yes experience is more important than taking courses I know that will sting a bit but it’s true as I’ve said the dsc system has become a money making scheme I believe when it started it was started with good intentions but sadly now it just churns out instant experts like yourself
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Sadly I 100% agree with this, Back 20 odd years ago, then I was thinking about doing my L2 I was talking with a deer manager who was an AW and his advice was shoot 100 deer big and small to get the experience required to pass, I shot 4 of the 6 before I even considered it.

Of the 100 before I applied I had shot red/fallow/roe and muntjac.

Now 1 muntjac is good enough to complete in my opinion that is wrong, you need to competently handle both big and small deer seamlessly and fluently.

DMQ is a cash cow, praying on the novice stalkers who want to succeed.

But to succeed you need experience and shooting less than 100 deer big and small before applying is not experience.
 
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Leec6.5 said:
Sadly I 100% agree with this, Back 20 odd years ago, then I was thinking about doing my L2 I was talking with a deer manager who was an AW and his advice was shoot 100 deer big and small to get the experience required to pass, I shot 4 of the 6 before I even considered it.

Of the 100 before I applied I had shot red/fallow/roe and muntjac.

Now 1 muntjac is good enough to complete in my opinion that is wrong, you need to competently handle both big and small deer seamlessly and fluently.

DMQ is a cash cow, praying on the novice stalkers who want to succeed.

But to succeed you need experience and shooting less than 100 deer big and small before applying is not experience.
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Not looking to kick off more argument here, Just wanting to understand more around the big questions re L1 / L2 certs.
What is the watershed reached by shooting & dealing with number 101? (Possibly even doing all of them in a poor fashion).
I do understand that a fully grown Fallow / Red is not the same thing as maybe a CWD / Muntjac ................. but they are all Deer with a leg on each corner;)
 
finnbear270 said:
Not looking to kick off more argument here, Just wanting to understand more around the big questions re L1 / L2 certs.
What is the watershed reached by shooting & dealing with number 101? (Possibly even doing all of them in a poor fashion).
I do understand that a fully grown Fallow / Red is not the same thing as maybe a CWD / Muntjac ................. but they are all Deer with a leg on each corner;)
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Allthough I agree that shooting more deer makes you a better candidate for DSC-2, a minimum number to get to the requiered level is different deoending on talent. Same as with driving lessons f.i., some will never learn, some are a true Lewis or Max.
It all hangs on whether a witness is able to determine if the candidate is good enough, which I think is very easy to see with some, but you always have the people that may just get by. For those an extra stalk or stalks would help in my opinion.

And please do not give me that cr*p about money making scemes. It just makes sense to have people do a course before they can shoot a gun out in the open and put meat in the foodchain. It is not for nothing this is mandatory in most countries and the courses are more comprehensive.
 
Emilio said:
Allthough I agree that shooting more deer makes you a better candidate for DSC-2, a minimum number to get to the requiered level is different deoending on talent. Same as with driving lessons f.i., some will never learn, some are a true Lewis or Max.
It all hangs on whether a witness is able to determine if the candidate is good enough, which I think is very easy to see with some, but you always have the people that may just get by. For those an extra stalk or stalks would help in my opinion.

And please do not give me that cr*p about money making scemes. It just makes sense to have people do a course before they can shoot a gun out in the open and put meat in the foodchain. It is not for nothing this is mandatory in most countries and the courses are more comprehensive.
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we’re not in another country though are we ? If folk wanted to to put beasts into the food chain all they have to have is game meat hygiene , I wonder why they dropped the Gmh from dsc 1 🤔 oh that’s right to make more money 😍 can you share with us your experience level @Emilio seeing as you speak with such authority?
 
finnbear270 said:
Not looking to kick off more argument here, Just wanting to understand more around the big questions re L1 / L2 certs.
What is the watershed reached by shooting & dealing with number 101? (Possibly even doing all of them in a poor fashion).
I do understand that a fully grown Fallow / Red is not the same thing as maybe a CWD / Muntjac ................. but they are all Deer with a leg on each corner;)
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The difference is you shoot 100 kg hind you’ve gotta get that off the field as clean and hassle free as possible and produce a seamless clean carcass to take to the game dealer to be able to do that takes experience, any idiot and I lose that term loosely can shoot a muntjac and get that off the field and present a usable carcass, you need to know how to handle big animals if you haven’t done big and small how do you know how to handle those copies correctly in a timely and usable fashion?

You can’t **** about shooting a red deer and leaving it in the field for two hours dragging it out particularly in the warmer months because if you do, you’re throwing it away not fit for consumption and the dealer if they’re worth their soul will condemn it

I could honestly tell you horror stories about people who have shot red Deer and not been able to handle them and get them cleanly into the larder
 
Emilio said:
Allthough I agree that shooting more deer makes you a better candidate for DSC-2, a minimum number to get to the requiered level is different deoending on talent. Same as with driving lessons f.i., some will never learn, some are a true Lewis or Max.
It all hangs on whether a witness is able to determine if the candidate is good enough, which I think is very easy to see with some, but you always have the people that may just get by. For those an extra stalk or stalks would help in my opinion.

And please do not give me that cr*p about money making scemes. It just makes sense to have people do a course before they can shoot a gun out in the open and put meat in the foodchain. It is not for nothing this is mandatory in most countries and the courses are more comprehensive.
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When I was killing and I mean killing, you would💩 your pants if you had came stalking with me with half a dozen or more red Deer on the deck in 1 outing, knowing how to handle those animals and get them quickly efficiently into the dealer is a skill and if you haven’t got that skill and you’ve done your level two, then I’m afraid you’re not worth your salt and no good to me!
 
Leec6.5 said:
The difference is you all 100 kg hind you’ve gotta get that off the field as clean and hasslefree as possible and produce a seamless clean carcass to take to the game dealer to be able to do that takes experience, any idiot and I lose that term loosely can shoot a muntjac and get that off the field and present a usable carcass, you need to know how to handle big animals if you haven’t done big and small how do you know how to handle those copies correctly in a timely and usable fashion?

You can’t **** about shooting a red deer and leaving it in the field for two hours dragging it out particularly in the warmer months because if you do, you’re throwing it away not fit for consumption and the dealer if they’re worth their soul will condemn it
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All well and good, but what does any of that have to do with DSC2? DSC2 has never required the Candidate to shoot more than a single species.
 
willie_gunn said:
All well and good, but what does any of that have to do with DSC2? DSC2 has never required the Candidate to shoot more than a single species.
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My personal opinion that shows inexperience just because the qualification says you only have to shoot one species that does not show relevant experience in how to do the job cleanly and effectively
 
Leec6.5 said:
When I was killing and I mean killing, you would💩 your pants if you had came stalking with me with half a dozen or more red Deer on the deck in 1 outing, knowing how to handle those animals and get them quickly efficiently into the dealer is a skill and if you haven’t got that skill and you’ve done your level two, then I’m afraid you’re not worth your salt and no good to me!
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Yeah, you are superman and nobody is as good. All beginners are inferior hacks. We know.
Now let's get back to reality and recognise that there is a good warning in there about only shoorting what you can manage to drag out. At keast in our course there surely was. I have not done DSC2 but can imagine that this could be a question in that proces also.
 
Emilio said:
Allthough I agree that shooting more deer makes you a better candidate for DSC-2, a minimum number to get to the requiered level is different deoending on talent. Same as with driving lessons f.i., some will never learn, some are a true Lewis or Max.
It all hangs on whether a witness is able to determine if the candidate is good enough, which I think is very easy to see with some, but you always have the people that may just get by. For those an extra stalk or stalks would help in my opinion.

And please do not give me that cr*p about money making scemes. It just makes sense to have people do a course before they can shoot a gun out in the open and put meat in the foodchain. It is not for nothing this is mandatory in most countries and the courses are more comprehensive.
Click to expand...
Over the years lots of people post they want to get into deer stalking with zero experience in guns/rifles (which is fine :eek:) in their post is often "looking to harvest sustainable food for the table"
There are often 2 types of replies.
1 Book a few stalks with a guide then put in for your DSC1 and then your FAC. (this is what they want to hear)
2 Pick up a decent air rifle and learn (like most of us crusty old gits did with a springer) starting on rabbits (which is a sustainable meat) horse paddocks are a good area to target as rabbits breed faster than deer.
Reply No 2 usually is met with silence from the OP, putting it simply they want to bypass landing on the squares you pay rent on (experience) on the Monopoly Board and just collect the £200.00 :rofl:
 
willie_gunn said:
All well and good, but what does any of that have to do with DSC2? DSC2 has never required the Candidate to shoot more than a single species.
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Yep. And many may never shoot anything too big. Or may have a think before they pull the trigger and have come prepared. DSC1 allready has extraction as a topic, so you are warned and it simply is impossible to make everybody go on an all out buffalo massacre to prove they are the end all of end alls.
 
Leec6.5 said:
My personal opinion that shows inexperience just because the qualification says you only have to shoot one species that does not show relevant experience in how to do the job cleanly and effectively
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DSC2 is, and always has been, fundamentally simple.

All it requires is for a Candidate to be able to take a deer from the field right through to it entering the food chain, and to be witnessed doing so and achieving the required standard.

This is hardly rocket science, and it amazes me the number of stalkers who want to make it way more complicated than it needs to be.
 
Leec6.5 said:
The difference is you shoot 100 kg hind you’ve gotta get that off the field as clean and hassle free as possible and produce a seamless clean carcass to take to the game dealer to be able to do that takes experience, any idiot and I lose that term loosely can shoot a muntjac and get that off the field and present a usable carcass, you need to know how to handle big animals if you haven’t done big and small how do you know how to handle those copies correctly in a timely and usable fashion?

You can’t **** about shooting a red deer and leaving it in the field for two hours dragging it out particularly in the warmer months because if you do, you’re throwing it away not fit for consumption and the dealer if they’re worth their soul will condemn it

I could honestly tell you horror stories about people who have shot red Deer and not been able to handle them and get them cleanly into the larder
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Indeed, 3 things to consider before taking the shot:-
1. Suitable cull animal
2. Safe shot
3. How to extract it
 
Emilio said:
Yep. And many may never shoot anything too big. Or may have a think before they pull the trigger and have come prepared. DSC1 allready has extraction as a topic, so you are warned and it simply is impossible to make everybody go on an all out buffalo massacre to prove they are the end all of end alls.
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Wonder why we end up with such high deer numbers 🤔🤣
 
clark111 said:
I’m looking to do my dsc2 and need to find a witness for ideally a practice and then the witnessed stalk. I would need it to be on your/ there ground as I’ve shot my cull animals before the rut.
I’m in Hampshire between Southampton and Winchester.
Thanks
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As has been said, when you register for DSC2 you will receive a list of AW's.

Call a number of them and have a chat about both your expectations and theirs. Find the one who best aligns with what you are looking for. Be sure to ask the AW about any costs involved, as some charge for witnessing whilst others don't.

Going out on a practice stalk can be a good idea, particularly for those Candidates who don't have the benefit of stalking with a group of more experienced stalkers. When I did my DSC2 (frighteningly, that was some 22 years ago) I was lucky enough to stalk with a group that included three AW's, but not everyone has that option. A lot of recreational stalkers, and indeed some professionals, stalk alone. Realistically the only way they will know if they are ready to do DSC2 is to give it a try. If that's true in your case, then simply explain that to the AW when you speak with them.

DSC2 isn't about the numbers or species of deer the Candidate has shot - it never has been - but about being able to meet the required standard to identify, cull, inspect, gralloch, transport, larder and then put a deer into the food chain. There's nothing in DSC2 designed to catch you out, and no information that can't be found from reading the respective Best Practice Guides. Have a read of the ICR and become intimately familiar with the process. If you can follow that process and meet the standard from 'muscle memory', then you are probably ready. If you're not sure, then by all means go out on a non-witnessed stalk with an AW and they will hopefully give you their honest opinion. DSC2 isn't a pass or fail type test - if you go out and find that there are elements that need to be improved to meet the standard, put the time in and then give it another go.

Most importantly, treat DSC2 as a learning experience, try not to get stressed about it, and find an AW that aligns with what you are looking for. DSC2 can be a lot of fun - enjoy it!
 
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Leec6.5 said:
I’m not saying that, I’m far from perfect even now, BUT if you’ve got the experience you know as and when the time arrives 👍
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Nobody is perfect, but like stated above here, that is not the requirement to do DSC-2. You only need to be good enough to get meat safely in the food chain, nothing more.
 
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