A-Max,.............. only OK on Whitetails!
162 a max
- Thread starter wraith
- Start date
Okay slight slip up re expanding. So by saying they do expand what you are saying is that they are a section 5 bullet right? Anyway best close that cAn of worms....
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RPA 6MM BR
Well-Known Member
Shot heaps with the 162 A-Max through my 7mm Rem Mag, these bad boys open up as much as ANY hunting bullet but are both cheaper and more accurate.
Tamus
Well-Known Member
Ok I'll post again, for the hard of thinking.
The A-max bullets were not designed to expand so are lawful to use for target shooting.
However.. they do expand, and that is both a fact an irrefutable by product of their design.
I'll let others concern themselves with how such facts "matter" to them. In my own opinion, the day "they" manage to penalise a stalker for shooting a deer with one might be a very enlightening one, but I suspect it would only truly reveal the inadequacy of the defence lawyer.
ok lads thanks for the posts not intending to open can of worms it was the gun shop that sugested them for hunting his coment not mine 30.00 solders fell in the war to full metal jackets do you think the deer will no the difrence hence why i asked hear so thanks for all repliyes
From terminal ballistics research site on the 7mm rem mag
The 162 grain Hornady A-Max is an excellent long range hunting bullet- although Hornady never designed the A-max for hunting. Its only limitation is at close ranges where early bullet blow up can limit penetration on stout bodied medium game. On light bodied game (under 60kg (130lb) at impact velocities above 2900fps, entry wounds can be up to an inch in diameter, internal wounding is violent followed by an exit wound of a similar diameter to the entry wound.
On game weighing between 70 and 90kg at impact velocities above 2900fps, the A-Max tends to produce a normal caliber sized entry wound followed immediately by widely diffused wounding through vitals. The bullet then comes to rest in the offside muscle or bone. The A-Max often appears as though it has the potential to produce a complete failure (surface bullet blow up) but it never quite does. Kills are either fast or slightly delayed, game soon succumb to internal wounds. Personally, I cannot bring myself to trust a bullet that is incapable of penetrating through offside muscle and bone therefore I prefer to take neck shots on stout bodied game at close ranges when using the A-Max. For ordinary chest shooting at point blank ranges, the A-Max is best used on game weighing no more than 70kg (155lb).
At impact velocities of 2900 to 2700fps, the A-max shows more uniform behavior across a wide range of game weights. Internal wounding is violent followed by exit wounds averaging 1” diameter on lighter bodied game. 80kg (180lb) is perhaps a realistic maximum bodyweight for the A-Max at these velocity parameters.
Between 2600 and 2000fps, the Amax comes into its own. Internal wounding is thorough, exit wounds can be very large due to the size of the remaining bullet fragments. From a velocity of 3100fps, the Amax crosses the 2000fps mark at 775 yards. Beyond this range, the A-max is somewhat reliant on bone to initiate expansion. The A-Max is able to produce wide wounding at 1600fps (1135 yards) when shots strike the lower scapular and leg bones of game.
At velocities of 2600 and below, the Amax is again, best suited to game weighing up to 80kg (180lb) but can produce adequate results on game weighing up to 150kg (330lb). Hunters in the U.S have taken Elk sized game (320kg/700lb) with the A-Max however, the .30 caliber 178 and 208 grain Amax are much more emphatic killers on big animals at long ranges.
He was somewhat more enthusiastic about the SST and the Nosler Partition though....
The Hornady 162 grain SST bullet is one of the very best all-round projectiles available for the 7mm Rem Mag. The only major difficulty with this projectile, is that in custom barrels with shallow throat lead angles designed for the Amax and VLD, the SST can be hard to get shooting accurately. The 162 grain SST produces a wide wound channel and relatively deep penetration. Where deep penetration is required, such as for use on large bodied medium game, the 162 grain SST should be annealed in candle flame as described above. The SST has a stout jacket which, after its explosive impact, often stays at too large a diameter for maximum terminal performance. Annealing the ogive enables the frontal area to swage back against the shank for deeper, more uniform penetration. Weight retention is around 50% for both the standard and annealed 162 grain SST however annealing minimizes incidents of bullet blow up or basic jacket core separation.
In rifles that will shoot the 162 grain SST accurately, this bullet driven at 3070-3120fps makes an outstanding light to medium weight game bullet from point blank, out to 1000 yards although at the longer ranges, bone must be hit in order to ensure mechanical wounding and expansion. This bullet (annealed) is one of the better choices for long range work (beyond 600 yards) on large, tough bodied medium game. No other bullet can fully compare to the SST in this particular role which places huge and to a large extent, unrealistic demands on the bullet manufacturer.
The 160 grain Partition is simply outstanding at 7mm RM velocities. This is a fast expanding, violent wounding bullet. The 160 grain Partition is an excellent performer on light or lean bodied animals through to large bodied deer, reaching its limits but still entirely adequate for use on Elk sized game. It’s hard to believe how, decades after the introduction of the Partition, very few bullets manage to surpass its performance. So spectacular is its wounding on medium game, that occasionally, the target will split like an over ripe peach near entry and exit points- under the right conditions. The only major limiting feature of the Partition is its mild BC of .475. If this bullet had a BC of .6, no other bullet could compare. The Partition expands reliably down to velocities as low as 2000fps or 600 yards from a muzzle velocity of 3100fps.
The 160 grain Accubond is a reliable bullet. It’s BC of .531 is much higher than the traditional Partition. Unfortunately, wounding is not nearly as spectacular as the 160 grain Partition however the Accubond is a clean killing bullet. The Accubond does its best work at impact velocities above 2600fps (around 275 yards) but still produces relatively wide wounds at 2400fps, producing clean but slightly delayed killing.
Nosler’s heavy 175 grain Partition is designed for Elk to Moose sized animals. Again, as is typical of the Partition, this bullet expands readily regardless of body weights encountered. The 175 grain Partition is adequately suited to large animals but cannot compare to a wider bore firing wider, heavier bullets. BC of this bullet is .519.
So there you go!!
The 162 grain Hornady A-Max is an excellent long range hunting bullet- although Hornady never designed the A-max for hunting. Its only limitation is at close ranges where early bullet blow up can limit penetration on stout bodied medium game. On light bodied game (under 60kg (130lb) at impact velocities above 2900fps, entry wounds can be up to an inch in diameter, internal wounding is violent followed by an exit wound of a similar diameter to the entry wound.
On game weighing between 70 and 90kg at impact velocities above 2900fps, the A-Max tends to produce a normal caliber sized entry wound followed immediately by widely diffused wounding through vitals. The bullet then comes to rest in the offside muscle or bone. The A-Max often appears as though it has the potential to produce a complete failure (surface bullet blow up) but it never quite does. Kills are either fast or slightly delayed, game soon succumb to internal wounds. Personally, I cannot bring myself to trust a bullet that is incapable of penetrating through offside muscle and bone therefore I prefer to take neck shots on stout bodied game at close ranges when using the A-Max. For ordinary chest shooting at point blank ranges, the A-Max is best used on game weighing no more than 70kg (155lb).
At impact velocities of 2900 to 2700fps, the A-max shows more uniform behavior across a wide range of game weights. Internal wounding is violent followed by exit wounds averaging 1” diameter on lighter bodied game. 80kg (180lb) is perhaps a realistic maximum bodyweight for the A-Max at these velocity parameters.
Between 2600 and 2000fps, the Amax comes into its own. Internal wounding is thorough, exit wounds can be very large due to the size of the remaining bullet fragments. From a velocity of 3100fps, the Amax crosses the 2000fps mark at 775 yards. Beyond this range, the A-max is somewhat reliant on bone to initiate expansion. The A-Max is able to produce wide wounding at 1600fps (1135 yards) when shots strike the lower scapular and leg bones of game.
At velocities of 2600 and below, the Amax is again, best suited to game weighing up to 80kg (180lb) but can produce adequate results on game weighing up to 150kg (330lb). Hunters in the U.S have taken Elk sized game (320kg/700lb) with the A-Max however, the .30 caliber 178 and 208 grain Amax are much more emphatic killers on big animals at long ranges.
He was somewhat more enthusiastic about the SST and the Nosler Partition though....
The Hornady 162 grain SST bullet is one of the very best all-round projectiles available for the 7mm Rem Mag. The only major difficulty with this projectile, is that in custom barrels with shallow throat lead angles designed for the Amax and VLD, the SST can be hard to get shooting accurately. The 162 grain SST produces a wide wound channel and relatively deep penetration. Where deep penetration is required, such as for use on large bodied medium game, the 162 grain SST should be annealed in candle flame as described above. The SST has a stout jacket which, after its explosive impact, often stays at too large a diameter for maximum terminal performance. Annealing the ogive enables the frontal area to swage back against the shank for deeper, more uniform penetration. Weight retention is around 50% for both the standard and annealed 162 grain SST however annealing minimizes incidents of bullet blow up or basic jacket core separation.
In rifles that will shoot the 162 grain SST accurately, this bullet driven at 3070-3120fps makes an outstanding light to medium weight game bullet from point blank, out to 1000 yards although at the longer ranges, bone must be hit in order to ensure mechanical wounding and expansion. This bullet (annealed) is one of the better choices for long range work (beyond 600 yards) on large, tough bodied medium game. No other bullet can fully compare to the SST in this particular role which places huge and to a large extent, unrealistic demands on the bullet manufacturer.
The 160 grain Partition is simply outstanding at 7mm RM velocities. This is a fast expanding, violent wounding bullet. The 160 grain Partition is an excellent performer on light or lean bodied animals through to large bodied deer, reaching its limits but still entirely adequate for use on Elk sized game. It’s hard to believe how, decades after the introduction of the Partition, very few bullets manage to surpass its performance. So spectacular is its wounding on medium game, that occasionally, the target will split like an over ripe peach near entry and exit points- under the right conditions. The only major limiting feature of the Partition is its mild BC of .475. If this bullet had a BC of .6, no other bullet could compare. The Partition expands reliably down to velocities as low as 2000fps or 600 yards from a muzzle velocity of 3100fps.
The 160 grain Accubond is a reliable bullet. It’s BC of .531 is much higher than the traditional Partition. Unfortunately, wounding is not nearly as spectacular as the 160 grain Partition however the Accubond is a clean killing bullet. The Accubond does its best work at impact velocities above 2600fps (around 275 yards) but still produces relatively wide wounds at 2400fps, producing clean but slightly delayed killing.
Nosler’s heavy 175 grain Partition is designed for Elk to Moose sized animals. Again, as is typical of the Partition, this bullet expands readily regardless of body weights encountered. The 175 grain Partition is adequately suited to large animals but cannot compare to a wider bore firing wider, heavier bullets. BC of this bullet is .519.
So there you go!!
Wish I still had the old A-Max boxes / packaging from the states!
A-Max,.............. only OK on Whitetails!
well thanks for that bud very intresting informaton and the time puting that lot down well done
kennyc
Well-Known Member
so reading this , as long as you are shooting large beasts at long range you are OK ? so for UK close range small to medium beasts the bullet is pretty much irrelevant and there are better bullets around? or am I reading this wrong? why do people keep bringing up the use of what is at best a controversial bullet when there is a whole industry dedicated to selling us bullets purpose made for the job? or am I just losing the plot?
this started with i can save 20pounds on a box of amax 100heads compared to noslers at 50pound a box 100 can i shoot them at vermin deer yes /no at 1000yards yes 50yards no losing the plot this is not simples a little gold thing with a plastik tip can do more than hit targets it has a very high bc its acurate its cheeper than nosler it expands but not ment to it kills elk at 1000yards but unsutable for fox roe deer 
who told you life was easey one coment i have to maike this forum is pricless thanks for all the coments lads keep up the spirit of adventure fear no deer
who told you life was easey one coment i have to maike this forum is pricless thanks for all the coments lads keep up the spirit of adventure fear no deer
www.yorkshireroestalking.
Distinguished Member
WELL SAID SIR, I salute you in your reply, someone with common sense, which you rarely see these days.so reading this , as long as you are shooting large beasts at long range you are OK ? so for UK close range small to medium beasts the bullet is pretty much irrelevant and there are better bullets around? or am I reading this wrong? why do people keep bringing up the use of what is at best a controversial bullet when there is a whole industry dedicated to selling us bullets purpose made for the job? or am I just losing the plot?
Often I hear people want to use a match type round because it shoots groups 4mm less then a soft point......Off sticks when that buck has just come into the call its all irrelevant anyway.
Do people even look at a soft point for long range target shooting?? No because they were not designed for that purpose. So why are we even talking about this again.
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A Max's now categorised as expanding ammunition Well worth the read, all five pages or so!,
soft points were designed for short rainge and yes there are lots of good soft points yes they can be shot furter down side tips distort with handeling in the magasine they move forward under recoil deforming the tips so every one leaves the mussle difrent they generaly dont have high bc so no good for target work now a head that has a very high bc will fly faster thro the air carry more down wind velositey and thump when it gets there more acurate so results in better shot placment less wind drift no deformaton of the tips in magasine whats not to like about this kind of round and if it expands all the better the berger vld is one of the best long rainge hunting heads out there yet its designed for targetsWELL SAID SIR, I salute you in your reply, someone with common sense, which you rarely see these days.
Often I hear people want to use a match type round because it shoots groups 4mm less then a soft point......Off sticks when that buck has just come into the call its all irrelevant anyway.
Do people even look at a soft point for long range target shooting?? No because they were not designed for that purpose. So why are we even talking about this again.
www.yorkshireroestalking.
Distinguished Member
you opened the amax can of worms dont now open the deer at long range one.
For normal hunting distances protected soft points fit the bill nicely.
Ever heard of vulcan, mag tips, grand slams and bear claws to name a few?
Ah yes but they are a little more expensive, I forgot.
If you want a long range HUNTING bullet look at the sierra game kings also, A long range HUNTING bullet first and formost that works well at close range also. and its cheap!
Brithunter
Well-Known Member
Do not Berger make Hunting bullets as well?
Also if you look into it you will most likely find it's damage to the base of the bullet which effects precision on target more than the tip. Another point is that decent magazine rifles have ribs to stop the cartridges moving forwards under recoil
.Some of the custom gunsmiths actually soldered tapered strips into the magazine boxes when building rifles. The strips are located at the shoulder to hold the head of the cartridges back against the rear wall of the magazine box if the magazine box did not already have them.
One of the first use of jacketed soft points was of course against the Dervish and led to the term Dum-Dum for an expanding bullet. The jacket was put on backwards to leave the lead exposed at the tip rather than the base. There is a report of one of these Dum-Dums, named after the arsenal where they were made, killing two Dervish at a range exceeding 2,000 yards. The bullet entered the first through the upper chest and exited the small of the back and entered the second mad just below the sternum. They were climbing the rear slope of a ridge so one was above the other. The 215 grain RNSP 303 bullet had been fired using the "Volley Sights" the shooters could not see the targets (Dervish) and were ordered to fire upon a land mark. A squad stood in probably three lines formation were told what range to set the volley sight for and what landmarks to sight upon and firing commenced. It was an early version of ground fire that today a Machine Gun would be used for. The range had already been measured out and spotters were watching for the first movement on the top of the ridge.
The problem with VLD's and such is their short bearing length. I acquired some 7mm 150 grain TAP ammunition the bullets of which had a very short bearing surface due to the pronounced boat tail and thin needel nose profile. High BC of course but they proved inaccurate though an original DWM Mauser 93 due to throat erosion and bore wear. The rifle was over 100 years old. I pulled the bullets and weighed charges and reduced the charge to suit the old M93 in a box or two before just reserving them for my modern 7x57 rifle. In one DWM they shot OK the other two the bullets tumbled.
For my normal hunting I like flat based bullets if I can get them. Boat tails show now real benefit until 300 yards and as I don't as a rule shoot quarry that far flat based are just fine by me. Better bearing surface and do not intrude into the powder space of the case.
www.yorkshireroestalking.
Distinguished Member
Also Kevin are not flat base bullets (of similar construction) less likely to shed the jackets on impact, if neither are "locked in"
Brithunter
Well-Known Member
Thanks John but I have heard that before . For years I avoided Sierra bullets if possible after having a 180 grain .30 calibre Sierra #2150 come apart on my first deer. A Roe Doe. Tat bullet blew apart on the ribs and I found bits of jacket and core when cleaning the carcase. The shot was about 90 yards from a seat and was through my Brno ZKK 601 in .308 Winchester. I switched to using the Speer 165 grain flat based #2035 with a brief period of using the Nosler 165 Grain ballistic Tip. Neither bullet gave me any problems 
. My stalking mentors comment on seeing my .308 ammunition with the green tips was:-
"" Oh you want to gut them at the same time""
made me realise he was not a fan of the Ballistic Tip so i used the Speer's on his ground from then on. Whilst I didn't and don't share his view I respected his feelings and as the Speers shot well it was no hardship. He had no qualms of using the ballistic Tips on Reynard.
In my mind if I am stalking with a guide or even friend on their ground if they don't like a certain type of bullet or even cartridge then I will use something they are happy with. I was lucky I suppose to have enough choice to be able to do this. This was THE reason for acquiring a Sound Moderator. Just so if it was required I had one and a rifle set up for it.
Sierra Boat Tails it seems are renowned for shedding jacket/core.
. For years I avoided Sierra bullets if possible after having a 180 grain .30 calibre Sierra #2150 come apart on my first deer. A Roe Doe. Tat bullet blew apart on the ribs and I found bits of jacket and core when cleaning the carcase. The shot was about 90 yards from a seat and was through my Brno ZKK 601 in .308 Winchester. I switched to using the Speer 165 grain flat based #2035 with a brief period of using the Nosler 165 Grain ballistic Tip. Neither bullet gave me any problems . My stalking mentors comment on seeing my .308 ammunition with the green tips was:-"" Oh you want to gut them at the same time""
made me realise he was not a fan of the Ballistic Tip so i used the Speer's on his ground from then on. Whilst I didn't and don't share his view I respected his feelings and as the Speers shot well it was no hardship. He had no qualms of using the ballistic Tips on Reynard.
In my mind if I am stalking with a guide or even friend on their ground if they don't like a certain type of bullet or even cartridge then I will use something they are happy with. I was lucky I suppose to have enough choice to be able to do this. This was THE reason for acquiring a Sound Moderator. Just so if it was required I had one and a rifle set up for it.
Sierra Boat Tails it seems are renowned for shedding jacket/core.
each has there own limits on distance bud if you shoot at 100yards well good for you what ever works if i shoot 500yards why not i have the gun the opticks and enughf years shooting to put the round where i want it to go 7mm rem mag is not a 100yards gun 200yard minimum sight in good to 1000yards if you put the time in i dont use sticks all shots of a biypod prone rainge finder used on every shot dial in shoot yes its not deer stalking its deer sniping and i have no problem with it its what i do as for a can of worms we all shoot deer and a dead deer at 100yards is no difrent from one at 300 dead is dead not triying to stirr eney thing but in this day and age things have moved on better guns better optics better rounds rainge finders wind meaters etc the list goes on and im 51 and have shot all my days short and long its not my place to tell every one youi can onley shoot 200yards to be a good deer stalker its the stalkers choice not mine or yours its shooters going agenst each other that f k this sport up enjoy your sport and let others enjoy theres
www.yorkshireroestalking.
Distinguished Member
well I have shot foxes out to 550m's with mine.
its a nice tikka and sat on top is a zeiss 6-24x56 with drop and windage turrets and it will shoot under inch groups with rws factory ammo @ 200m's.
I do handload for this rifle as well. So I am no stranger to long range and what the calibre is caperable of.
What I do find hard to understand is when 10,000's of pounds/dollars is spent on designing a hunting bullet to perform at all resonable ranges people feel the need to shoot TARGET ammo at live quarry.
Then make out they use it because of the prohibitive cost of propley developed ammo and then spout off about modern optics and wind meters and rangefinders. If these can be afforded why quibble about the cost (a few pence) of every shot.
If when the bullet gets there it wil get the job done and not blow the venison to bits.
Is this about the deer(venison) or are they just long range targets?
its a nice tikka and sat on top is a zeiss 6-24x56 with drop and windage turrets and it will shoot under inch groups with rws factory ammo @ 200m's.
I do handload for this rifle as well. So I am no stranger to long range and what the calibre is caperable of.
What I do find hard to understand is when 10,000's of pounds/dollars is spent on designing a hunting bullet to perform at all resonable ranges people feel the need to shoot TARGET ammo at live quarry.
Then make out they use it because of the prohibitive cost of propley developed ammo and then spout off about modern optics and wind meters and rangefinders. If these can be afforded why quibble about the cost (a few pence) of every shot.
If when the bullet gets there it wil get the job done and not blow the venison to bits.
Is this about the deer(venison) or are they just long range targets?
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hi bud no its not about blowing deer apart i onley shoot to eat i dont sell eney venison good to hear that you dont just shoot 100yards and targets yes i do shoot them and you cant wound a target i get your point on round selecton im just looking to find a head that can do what i want without costing the earth i fire mabey 30 to 50 rounds every time i go out mostley at targets which are fixed on the hill when im done ding that i may go stalking or foxing on a difrent bit of land the amax was recomended to me by the gun shop which i will not name as a very good long rainge fox or deer round from my 7mm and at 30pound a box of 100looked like a good by i taike my hat of to you that you did not come back with you can onley shoot deer at 200yards rant rave etc as stated im not triying to look for arguments just advice on long rainge rounds that if recwired will drop deer fox at rainges that may not be to every ones taste good day sir and thanks for your responcewell I have shot foxes out to 550m's with mine.
its a nice tikka and sat on top is a zeiss 6-24x56 with drop and windage turrets and it will shoot under inch groups with rws factory ammo @ 200m's.
I do handload for this rifle as well. So I am no stranger to long range and what the calibre is caperable of.
What I do find hard to understand is when 10,000's of pounds/dollars is spent on designing a hunting bullet to perform at all resonable ranges people feel the need to shoot TARGET ammo at live quarry.
Then make out they use it because of the prohibitive cost of propley developed ammo and then spout off about modern optics and wind meters and rangefinders. If these can be afforded why quibble about the cost (a few pence) of every shot.
If when the bullet gets there it wil get the job done and not blow the venison to bits.
Is this about the deer(venison) or are they just long range targets?
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