2 3/4 Shotgun Chambers Post Lead Ban

[rookyshot]

Hi all
Can anyone share any thoughts on how much of an issue will 2 3/4 inch chambers will be following a ban on lead.

I’m currently in the market for an additional shotgun which will be used for both clay and game shooting and I’m seeing some great looking guns with 2 3/4 chambers but how restrictive with this be with steel shot cartridges if the gun is HP Steel proofed but does not have 3” chambers.

Any help on this topic would be very much appreciated.

 

[Heym SR20]

Absolutely no issue whatsoever. All the manufacturers have a number of different steel cartridges that will in shotgun 2 3/4” chambers that have been proofed in the last 70 years. Recommended that you do not use more than half choke.

The steel shot is held in a shot cup - made from either plastic, or increasingly in game cartridges in a biodegradable plastic, so the shot doesn’t touch the barrel walls.

Cartridges are made for both game and clay shooting. Prices are on a par with existing lead cartridges, especially if you buy in bulk from the likes of Just Cartridges.

If you have a traditional 2 1/2” gun there are now several steel cartridges suitable for such guns.

There are also high speed Steel Cartridges. These are loaded to higher velocities with higher pressures. They should only be used in Steel Shot Proofed Guns with Steel Shot compatible chokes. Look at the proof marks.

Most of the time all you get is extra recoil. But if you are shooting long range say on the foreshore you might want to consider these. High Speed Steel are available in 2 3/4”, 3” and 3 1/2” cartridges.

For most applications I would just stick with standard steel cartridges, even if your gun is proofed for High Speed Steel.

12 and 20 bores have lots of steel options. 16 bore has a few, even some in 2 1/2” steel. 28 bore none on the market, but I gather in development, ditto 410.

 

[chriswjx]

A lot of people don't seem to realise, so long as your barrels are BNP stamped and are less than half choke, there is nothing wrong with shooting standard steel loads out of them.

The fleur de lis is for high performance or  superior steel loads.

Cartridge boxes should (on one of the sides) show what required proof marks are required, but functionally most steel loads are standard, and require nothing more than nitro proofing. I believe there is some suggestion to shoot HP steel through no more than quarter choke, but can't remember where I saw/read that.

 

[Tim.243]

Hi all
Can anyone share any thoughts on how much of an issue will 2 3/4 inch chambers will be following a ban on lead.

I’m currently in the market for an additional shotgun which will be used for both clay and game shooting and I’m seeing some great looking guns with 2 3/4 chambers but how restrictive with this be with steel shot cartridges if the gun is HP Steel proofed but does not have 3” chambers.

Any help on this topic would be very much appreciated.

I use a 2 3/4 Browning (flt pond) with Steel also a 3" Browning with steel on the marsh with the heaver loads.

 

[chriswjx]

Functionally, I'd also say there stuff on YouTube from TGS Outdoors/Nick Horten, where I seem to recall he's been happily shooting standard/HP steel through guns not proofed for such.

Granted, there is no legal back up for you if something did actually go wrong (and I would not do it, or recommend anyone to do it), but it makes some interesting watching - especially when they start doing before/after comparison measurements of the bore.

 

[Heym SR20]

A lot of people don't seem to realise, so long as your barrels are BNP stamped and are less than half choke, there is nothing wrong with shooting standard steel loads out of them.

The fleur de lis is for high performance or  superior steel loads.

Cartridge boxes should (on one of the sides) show what required proof marks are required, but functionally most steel loads are standard, and require nothing more than nitro proofing. I believe there is some suggestion to shoot HP steel through no more than quarter choke, but can't remember where I saw/read that.

Proof marks and Proof Guidance here

https://www.gwct.org.uk/media/1106151/Proofing.pdf

In older guns you do want to ensure that the gun is in good condition, is on the face and there is good barrel wall thickness.

There are stories of old guns letting go and steel being blamed. More likely the gun has let go because the barrels are weak. What causes weakness - pitting and rust which is all down to moisture and lack of cleaning. Worst is pitting that happens under the ribs when the rib joints have failed (or where never that good in the first place), water gets in then causes rust that is out of sight and out of mind. If you are wise enough (or stupid enough) to enjoy shooting older side by side guns will have such things in mind.

Berretta, Brownings, AyA etc made in the last 60 odd years should be fine if in good condition.

 

[enfieldspares]

Hi all
Can anyone share any thoughts on how much of an issue will 2 3/4 inch chambers will be following a ban on lead.

I’m currently in the market for an additional shotgun which will be used for both clay and game shooting and I’m seeing some great looking guns with 2 3/4 chambers but how restrictive with this be with steel shot cartridges if the gun is HP Steel proofed but does not have 3” chambers.

Any help on this topic would be very much appreciated.

Hmm. In theory I think that it would be a good idea, yes, to look at 3" chambers if and only if you were wanting to use steel loads of over one ounce. Such as the 1 1/8 ounce steel loads in 3" cases that I have seen.

But if ONLY wanting to use one ounce (maximum allowed anyway on many clay grounds) then I see no need. As a 2 3/4" high performance steel proved gun firing but standard steel for game at normal thirty yard distance firing 32 grams of English #5 steel shot with 275 pellets will do all that is needed?

It must be remembered that there are more pellets, per count, in 1 1/8 ounce of steel than in 1 1/8 of lead. So a steel 1 1/8 ounce load of English #5 will be 275 pellets as against in 1 1/8 ounce lead English #5 just some 250 pellets. This cartridge below is standard steel specification:

High Pheasant Steel Hydrowad | Hull Cartridge

An effective lead free load for high flyers. Ultimate performance for ntiro-proofed guns. Fast and smooth with moderate recoil.

www.hullcartridge.co.uk

 

[rookyshot]

Absolutely no issue whatsoever. All the manufacturers have a number of different steel cartridges that will in shotgun 2 3/4” chambers that have been proofed in the last 70 years. Recommended that you do not use more than half choke.

The steel shot is held in a shot cup - made from either plastic, or increasingly in game cartridges in a biodegradable plastic, so the shot doesn’t touch the barrel walls.

Cartridges are made for both game and clay shooting. Prices are on a par with existing lead cartridges, especially if you buy in bulk from the likes of Just Cartridges.

If you have a traditional 2 1/2” gun there are now several steel cartridges suitable for such guns.

There are also high speed Steel Cartridges. These are loaded to higher velocities with higher pressures. They should only be used in Steel Shot Proofed Guns with Steel Shot compatible chokes. Look at the proof marks.

Most of the time all you get is extra recoil. But if you are shooting long range say on the foreshore you might want to consider these. High Speed Steel are available in 2 3/4”, 3” and 3 1/2” cartridges.

For most applications I would just stick with standard steel cartridges, even if your gun is proofed for High Speed Steel.

12 and 20 bores have lots of steel options. 16 bore has a few, even some in 2 1/2” steel. 28 bore none on the market, but I gather in development, ditto 410.

Great insight, exactly what I was looking for. So the need for 3” chambers is not particularly important for clays, walked up or small given days.

 

[Liveonce]

shot size can also make a steel cartridge HP steel. I would future proof the situation and buy with a minimum of a 3inch chamber so you have full range of steel cartridges that you can use.

 

[rookyshot]

Wow great feedback from everyone, a quick look through Hull & Gamebore's current range show's a lot of 70mm steel loads but I take the point about 3" chambers and HP Steel proof providing a future proofed solution.

 

[Dunwaters]

Great insight, exactly what I was looking for. So the need for 3” chambers is not particularly important for clays, walked up or small given days.

3” chambers in a new modern gun will have the advantage of being suitable for all loads in that caliber.
If I was buying a new gun, that’s what I’d get, if I was buying one second hand with 70mm chambers I might try to use that to weasel a few bob extra off the asking price.

 

[jthyttin]

So a steel 1 1/8 ounce load of English #5 will be 275 pellets as against in 1 1/8 ounce lead English #5 just some 250 pellets.

No way. Steel density is around 7.9 grams per cubic centimeter, whereas lead is around 11. So there would be 40% more "steel" (I actually think it's closer to iron) pellets in a given weight, and same size.

 

[Heym SR20]

Most modern guns are 3” chambered for the benefit of the lowest common denominator - so no problems when Jolly Inbwed and his friend Wupert loads up their 50 gram magnums into their Bewetta and Bwownings when they go grouse shooting. They will kick the last bit of sense out of sense out of them but the gun will still take it.

Of course they had checked taken their grandfathers Purdeys and Dickson Round Actions into the gunsmith. Useless for steel he opined so he offered to scrap them and they walked out with brand new Brownings and Berreta’s.

 

[25 Sharps]

A lot of people don't seem to realise, so long as your barrels are BNP stamped and are less than half choke, there is nothing wrong with shooting standard steel loads out of them.

The fleur de lis is for high performance or  superior steel loads.

Cartridge boxes should (on one of the sides) show what required proof marks are required, but functionally most steel loads are standard, and require nothing more than nitro proofing. I believe there is some suggestion to shoot HP steel through no more than quarter choke, but can't remember where I saw/read that.

In my experience standard steel is crap, HP kills well, standard steel doesn’t.

 

[McKenzie]

I’ll be using bismuth. Rarely fire more than 10 shots a day at game when walking with my sbs & if I decide to take up clays again I’ll get a modern dedicated gun.

 

[Dougal McGuire]

I've been hunting snipe with 2 3/4 steel shells for several years now out of necessity, no problems. I just use the highest velocity I can find.

 

[jthyttin]

In my experience standard steel is crap, HP kills well, standard steel doesn’t.

I think both kill well, up to certain distance. The distance is longer for HP steel, if it's designed (and selected by user) to do so.

In my (very limited) experience quality HP steel kills better than similarly priced lead (50 eurocents a piece) when targets are "challenging". There are several previous posts by members, stating that steel is clearly inferior, at distances dozens of yards farther than I'd discharge a shotgun at. But I guess that's UK "high bird" etc game...

Disassemble a few rounds of steel you're planning on using. There are vast differences in shot diameter, consistency and so on. Goes for both std and HP. There's also velocity differences in std steel, so choose wisely.

 

[enfieldspares]

Where I used to beat and then my son afterwards it was all non-toxic. I understand that Pine Marten here is the one to ask, perhaps, for real world steel experience on a true "mixed bag" shoot.

 

[Heym SR20]

I have used steel on the Foreshore for the last 20 odd years. The early stuff was crap.

But the modern cartridges just drop ducks and geese dead. I tend to use a 3” No 4 HP steel in a Franchi Affinity

For other shooting I use Eley Grand Prix steel 2 1/2”. I have used these on phaesant, mallard, teal, widgeon, snipe, woodcock , hare, fox and jay. I have really found very little difference to lead cartridges. If I shoot well birds are dead. I tend to pick my shots and less inclined to shoot at long birds or when I can only see the arse end ( a lot is walked up type shooting), not because i am using steel, its just that I don’t like wounding things.