20 tactical or 204

[JabaliHunter]

This is a post from years back,


I think "Bobjs" on the Stalking Directory was posting about this a few months back. I'm fairly sure he was succesfull. If you're not on the forum I could pass on your email adress to him or vice versa.

Here's one of his posts:

" Forming 20 Tactical brass is generally a two-step process. You start with a 223 Remington brass that has been full-length sized in a .223 die. Then run the brass through a Tactical 20 forming die, and finally run it through a Tactical 20 full-length die. Case lubrication/wax should be used very sparingly just on the neck and the body. Too much lube will result in wrinkled shoulders. Although the wrinkles will blow out once the case is fired, they make the cartridge looks somewhat unattractive. The author has had great results using Redding dies with Hornady Unique Case Lube, while others prefer Imperial Sizing Die Wax. The Hornady Unique Case Lube is a little thinner, so it tends to be more forgiving if too much is used.

Some reloaders, like the author, will anneal the brass as the final step. Although not necessary, annealing tends to help the fire-forming process and extends the life of the brass a bit."

Hope that helps as Bob knows his stuff.

Yes, that Accurate Shooter article is pretty comprehensive http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/20caliber/

Still think the 20 Practical is the way to go though, if you are starting from 223 brass...

 

[bewsher500]

Forming 20 Tactical brass is generally a two-step process.

1) You start with a 223 Remington brass that has been full-length sized in a .223 die.
2) Then run the brass through a Tactical 20 forming die,
3) and finally run it through a Tactical 20 full-length die. Case lubrication/wax should be used very sparingly just on the neck and the 4) body. Some reloaders, like the author, will anneal the brass as the final step.
5) annealing tends to help the fire-forming process and extends the life of the brass a bit."

that looks like a 5 step process....

 

[bobjs]

that looks like a 5 step process....

yup not my words ED,

as stated above,

Yes, that Accurate Shooter article is pretty comprehensive

I cut and pasted that reply from a forum many years back, and I am sure the comment made about me knowing my stuff relates to the fact that I stated you can form 20 tac brass from 223, nothing to do with the process that is from the accurate shooters web site.

bob.

still prefer the 20 tac...................................coz I have more brass for mine that reloading solutions does, double S

 

[20-250]

As per normal, no-one is paying any attention to my experience. I guess that's how you get a post count in the thousands. Waste your money and time buying and using forming dies if it pleases you.

 

[Greener Jim]

Regardless of what the perceived wisdom of the internet would have you believe, forming 20 Tac brass from 223 (should it be necessary) is a doddle. If you can F/L resize 223 brass, you can form 20 tac. Forming dies my a**e!

Wow, thanks for the input about your experience.

 

[20-250]

I see you're in the thousands.

 

[Greener Jim]

Good eyes

 

[Alan Maughan]

I have a 20Tac.

I run 223 Lapua brass straight into the 20Tac FL sizing die with thin smear of Lee case lube all over the outside and also on the inside of the neck which I apply using a cotton but, it forms perfectly in one pass in the FL sizing die. If you have started with new brass it is already annealed and I have found the fire forming loads to be just as accurate as the second fired cases - my rifle shoots honest 1/4"-3/8" groups all day long doing it this way.

I was buying Dakota brass which is made by Lapua from Reloading Solutions but I find its easier to source 223 Lapua cases and considering I always FL size any case before using it then there is no extra work starting with 223 brass. In my experience I would agree with 20-250, so often things on the internet are made more complicated than they need to be, the Americans seem to like to do things that way and most of the 20Tac info comes via the US.

 

[bobjs]

I have a 20Tac.

I run 223 Lapua brass straight into the 20Tac FL sizing die with thin smear of Lee case lube all over the outside and also on the inside of the neck which I apply using a cotton but, it forms perfectly in one pass in the FL sizing die. If you have started with new brass it is already annealed and I have found the fire forming loads to be just as accurate as the second fired cases - my rifle shoots honest 1/4"-3/8" groups all day long doing it this way.

I was buying Dakota brass which is made by Lapua from Reloading Solutions but I find its easier to source 223 Lapua cases and considering I always FL size any case before using it then there is no extra work starting with 223 brass. In my experience I would agree with 20-250, so often things on the internet are made more complicated than they need to be, the Americans seem to like to do things that way and most of the 20Tac info comes via the US.

Thanks to 2 great lads on here I have just done this very process for a new shooter with his own 20 tac and its fine, I used once fired 223 brass and the process went as such,

deprime and full sized the 223 brass using 223 fl die,(20 cases)
clean the brass in the ultrasonic cleaner,
dry and lube both outside and in the inside of the neck
then through a 20 tac body die
light lube
then into the fl 20 tac dry
trim inspect and load

I am also getting very small groups with both the 20s so I'm now finding it hard to sell one.i shot 5 rounds from my sako and my tikka, then this lads CZ had the other 10 and they all shot within 1/4" at 100 yards, so nothing wrong with the brass,

bob.

 

[JabaliHunter]

Anything is possible. I saw a guy make a table and chairs with a chainsaw once. Wouldn't want it in my kitchen though...

I guess the risk is that run-out increases by skipping the extra step. Whether that matters to you or not or you can see the results on target is a different question.

In all likelihood it will make no difference at 100 yards, but it might if trying to hit a prairie dog (or rabbit) or egg at 600.

 

[bobjs]

Anything is possible. I saw a guy make a table and chairs with a chainsaw once. Wouldn't want it in my kitchen though...

I guess the risk is that run-out increases by skipping the extra step. Whether that matters to you or not or you can see the results on target is a different question.

In all likelihood it will make no difference at 100 yards, but it might if trying to hit a prairie dog (or rabbit) or egg at 600.

never even tried to shoot past 400 with my 20 tac, but it's something to think on, I use my 6mmbr for those shots

bob

 

[AnthonyR]

Anything is possible. I saw a guy make a table and chairs with a chainsaw once. Wouldn't want it in my kitchen though...

I guess the risk is that run-out increases by skipping the extra step. Whether that matters to you or not or you can see the results on target is a different question.

In all likelihood it will make no difference at 100 yards, but it might if trying to hit a prairie dog (or rabbit) or egg at 600.

I have formed 20 Tac from 223 in one step with no increase in run out, all measured using a concentricity gauge.

My 20 Tac is still the most accurate rifle I own out to about 400 yards and since it is a NV only rifle that is more than good enough for me.

 

[paul o']

Pal use's a tac its a laser beam he loves it over his 221 fireball
Evening MR R

 

[Alan Maughan]

Thanks to 2 great lads on here I have just done this very process for a new shooter with his own 20 tac and its fine, I used once fired 223 brass and the process went as such,

deprime and full sized the 223 brass using 223 fl die,(20 cases)
clean the brass in the ultrasonic cleaner,
dry and lube both outside and in the inside of the neck
then through a 20 tac body die
light lube
then into the fl 20 tac dry
trim inspect and load

I am also getting very small groups with both the 20s so I'm now finding it hard to sell one.i shot 5 rounds from my sako and my tikka, then this lads CZ had the other 10 and they all shot within 1/4" at 100 yards, so nothing wrong with the brass,

bob.

Your not doing what I or 20-250 described Bob, you are processing the brass much more than I described by starting with once fired 223 and then using 223 FL sizer and the 20Tac body die. Nonetheless it still proves the concept works fine

 

[Alan Maughan]

If you go half way into the 20Tac FL die to resize the first half of the neck then rotate the case through 90 degrees before passing it all the way into the die you wont have any runout issues. I seldom use the 20Tac with 39r SBK's out past 400yds but it has first shot kills to 500ish from time to time. Generally I would switch to a more appropriate caliber if the shooting was at ranges consistently over 400yds. My 20Tac has shot 3/4" 3 shot groups at 300yds on more than one occasion when conditions have been favourable so the resizing method seems accurate enough for me.

 

[bobjs]

Cheers lads.

im so glad that some others have run it out to 400 yards, I did not want to admit it but I have taken shots out to 412 yards on gongs with no issues running 40gr pills from a 20" barrel,

and I have ran the same in the new rifle a 22" barrel on the same gong and guess what ? it's just the same, I also use my newer one for NV and the old one for daytime work as no one wanted to buy it so I kept it.

bob

ps:I have had 3 and they are all very accurate, so much so I feel I am cheating.