204 Ruger

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MarinePMI said:
How did I miss this little gem of a thread?

Respectfully, I'll have to disagree with you on barrel length being a requirement to achieve high velocities with a .20 cal cartridge.

I've been shooting a 20 Tactical since....let's see...1999/2000 (or somewhere thereabouts). Long before the 204R was even a thought. Back then Douglas was the only maker of .20 caliber blanks, so it was a rare thing indeed.

In a 20" barrel, with 33gr VMax (yes, they used to only offer 33gr; then 32gr and 40gr later on), I was seeing north of 4200fps (H-322 powder). Now granted, the .223 based case for the .20 Tactical is more efficient (especially with the thick Lake City brass), but high velocities can be achieved with proper powder selection (not necessarily longer barrel length).

The biggest hold up with the .20 cals is bullet selection. That's it. (But the offerings have grown dramatically since the early 2000's)

As far as terminal effects, it tends to outperform a standard .223 within normal hunting ranges due to the frangibility of the bullets and high velocity (or high RPM's to be exact, which is what causes the bullet to fly apart once upset/deformed). When I say "outperform" I am using that term in the context of small, fur bearing canids, where often times the pelt is sought after for bounty rewards, or for sale to the furrier in the spring. Extra holes (exits), require extra thread (and time). Hence the whole sub caliber craze in the late 90's/early 2000's; fur prices were up, and if you lived in the right area of the US, you could make a tidy sum in the winter (enough to pay for a new rifle at the end of the season). A prime wolf pelt would fetch $600, green and cased. A completely black wolf pelt would easily fetch $1000. And so we saw a dirge of subcaliber wildcats pop up. But I digress...

The .204R was designed for fox/coyote/wolves, and, to be very easy on the pelts. That may not be applicable in the UK (the pelt issue), but the fact it was intended for canids kind of answers the basic question; Is this good for fox/vermin? Yes.

It is no small irony that the 204R was originally based on a .223 case when on the drawing board at Hornady (IIRC, Dave Emery worked on this as one of his first projects there). But, as they say, a series of mistakes were made (assumptions really), and it ended up being based on the .222M case instead. Todd Kindler (creator of the .20 Tactical, 20 Vartarg and 20 TNT) used to lament about it. But that is another story entirely.

Bottom line: The .204R is a great cartridge, but has very specific advantages over the .223 (wind drift and violent expansion). That's not to say a .223 can't get the same job done, just that the 204R tends to excel at it, rather than just get the job done like a .223. Some people like scalpels, some people like cleavers. <shrug> It's the shooter's choice.
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It does seem that the .20 tac can generate good velocity with shorter barrels , but the .204 Ruger does not. Hence every test I have read said that they were down on velocity compared to the quoted figures.
The only people who get close have long barrels.
 
eldon said:
Yes Sandy this is the rifle in question 👍
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I'm pleased you still have it and it's serving you as well as it did Don and mine me. I'll be sure to let his widow know, as she'll be equally comforted.

They're cracking rifles being special order 24" barrel lengths and super varmints. Even more so since Tikka have dropped the .204 calibre from their stock calibres.
 
Steve123 said:
It does seem that the .20 tac can generate good velocity with shorter barrels , but the .204 Ruger does not. Hence every test I have read said that they were down on velocity compared to the quoted figures.
The only people who get close have long barrels.
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And why would anyone want a .204 and a 20" barrel is beyond me... 24" all the way...
 
MarinePMI said:
Is he still around? I had forgotten about the 19 Calhoon, as well as a his "double hollow point" bullets in various subcalibers.
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I think he’s still trading.
He sent me a bunch of “Stuff” over in 2019 I think.
He had/was making plans to come over here and tour the coast of the British Isles.
However, his wife (Kathy) passed and that trip didn’t happen.
I think Kathy used to make most of his bullets and he started buying in.

Dan Clements and a chap called Carlson? Got with James to build 19-221 FBI. Dan’s had the 30 degree shoulder.
Dan very kindly gave me his chamber reamer (Even paid the shipping) and I had a 19 Fireball Improved made up.
I also had a 19-223 built at the same time.
There was never a problem getting bullets off James, but, as insurance I had a swage die made (Dentist in USA) for reducing 20 cal bullets down to 19. It worked perfectly and was half the price of another better know die maker.
Ken.
PS. MarinePMI, You probably know all this stuff already. :)
 
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Has anyone tried buying 39 grain Blitz kings lately, impossible, whereas there is still plenty of .223 stuff available.
 
I’ve owned a pair of Ruger rifles chambered in 204 Ruger the first was one of the stainless Grey coated laminated stock Model 77 MKII - VT guns . I shot that gun A LOT all be it paper at 100 yards and a fair amount at paper at 200 yards . The gun was consistent sub 1/4 MOA gun . It however was boring it liked everything even factory ammo shot close to 1/4 MOA both 32 grain and 40 grain . Granted I had a fair piece of glass on top and the trigger was light . I learned to use it easily enough but I never cared for the two stageish trigger in that gun . After I got rid of that gun later when I was accumulating Ruger #1’s the second time I ran across a Ruger #1B LNIB at a ridiculously low price and bought it . Granted the #1 wouldn’t hold a candle to the 77 I had the #1 with the light spotter barrel and a kinda stout trigger would still stay easily inside 1 MOA and while not exactly bench rest accuracy certainly good enough for any groundhog or crow inside 200-300 yards .
 
Cyres said:
If you could obtain some 50 grn Bergers in .204 then it could be legal for roe in Scotland as certainly exceeeds 2,450 fps and with correct loading should go over 1,000 ft lbs.

D
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When I had the Ruger 77MKII-VT I acquired several boxes of the Berger 50 grain bullets . They shot almost as well as the 32-40 grain bullets . It was my intention to plunk a whitetail with the gun using one of those bullets . Technically not legal during deer season it was for damage control . But I never got it done before I got rid of the gun .
 
Kevgun said:
Has anyone tried buying 39 grain Blitz kings lately, impossible, whereas there is still plenty of .223 stuff available.
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I dont shoot the 39 SBK's but do and always shoot Nosler 32's. I purchased 3 boxes only this week.
I also bulk ordered many Nosler 40 grain BT's a year or two ago, not taking stock of shelves, but having them ordered in for me. In these times and in previous years, it's a case of ordering ahead. The same for any reloading consumables.
 
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Original post was a query about purchasing a 204 for fox's NOT DEER, I wish people would read posts thoroughly,every shooting forum is the same,somebody queries 1 calibre and somebody jumps in and recommends another
 
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