223 vs 6mm vs 6.5

[308mate]

Hi guys, I'm thinking of building a semi custom rifle for the range.
I only have access to a 300m range so I'm looking at smaller case's such as 223 6mmbr and 6.5grendal
everyone knows how the 223 preforms but what about the other 2?
do they have a real world advantage out to 300m??
the gun will be just for fun on the range as I have a 308, 270 and a 6.5x55 for stalking and the odd chance I get to shoot longer ranges
thanks
Aaron

 

[Selous]

Do you reload?? if you dont then your choice is made as the 223 wins hands down. Personally the 6BR and grendel are more interesting than the 223 if you do reload but the 6.5x47 is better still!

 

[308mate]

yes I reload for all my rifles, I know how good the 6.5x47 is but I am looking for somthing that uses a bit less powder.

 

[kenbro]

If it's only to 300 yards, hard to better the 6mm PPC.
KEN.

 

[308mate]

I had thought of the 6mm PPC but doner actions and avalibility of dies and brass seems to be an issue

 

[Heym SR20]

If its for range use, you will want to shoot it lots. Go with whichever has the cheapest cost per bang, whether that's factory ammo or reloads. It doesn't take long to shoot 20, 30 or 50 rounds and if its still £1 a bang then it soon gets expensive.

 

[kenbro]

I had thought of the 6mm PPC but doner actions and avalibility of dies and brass seems to be an issue

6.5 Grendel is based on 220 Russian case, so same head size as PPC.
Not sure, but, i think 6.5x 47L is same head dia. as PPC.
Ken.

 

[Laurie]

No, 6.5X47L and 6mm BR both use the standard Mauser / 308 / 30-06 etc 0.473" case-head diameter, so no fancy bolts needed. All three cartridges have great accuracy potential for 300 yards, but as pointed out the Grendel uses the smaller diameter PPC / 7.62X39mm case-head diameter and there aren't many rifles around that suit.

6mm BR is a lovely little cartridge, but there are few off the shelf rifles to be found chambered in it, so it becomes either a full custom build, or a rebarrel off a suitable donor piece. Barrel life in range use is around 1,500 rounds at full precision after which it starts to lose its edge and declines until being shot out at around 3,000 rounds.

223 is the simple / cheap option with lots of rifles around new and secondhand. For 300 yards, you don't need heavier bullets and fast-twist barrels, so a good Remington 700VS or similar heavy-barrel varminter can give excellent performance. Cheap to handload for and with 52/53gn match bullets, barrel life is 5,000 rounds plus. Factory available too at reasonable prices.

 

[Spiker]

Ah! Laurie. A little biased if I may say so. Whatabout the 6.5 Creedmoor. Superb from 100 to 1000yards and a hell of a lot of fun. Cheap brass, convert 22-250, Vih N150 and Lapua 139g Scenars job done. Hours and hours of deep joy.

Keith

 

[kimh]

OP says...
to shoot range of 300
doesn't say to be best in competition, just to shoot
wants to shoot rounds with less powder
loads own

6.5 Creedmoor, go cheap to lob it in or up the load to compete
223 dial it in and stay there

 

[kenbro]

No, 6.5X47L and 6mm BR both use the standard Mauser / 308 / 30-06 etc 0.473" case-head diameter, so no fancy bolts needed. All three cartridges have great accuracy potential for 300 yards, but as pointed out the Grendel uses the smaller diameter PPC / 7.62X39mm case-head diameter and there aren't many rifles around that suit.

6mm BR is a lovely little cartridge, but there are few off the shelf rifles to be found chambered in it, so it becomes either a full custom build, or a rebarrel off a suitable donor piece. Barrel life in range use is around 1,500 rounds at full precision after which it starts to lose its edge and declines until being shot out at around 3,000 rounds.

223 is the simple / cheap option with lots of rifles around new and secondhand. For 300 yards, you don't need heavier bullets and fast-twist barrels, so a good Remington 700VS or similar heavy-barrel varminter can give excellent performance. Cheap to handload for and with 52/53gn match bullets, barrel life is 5,000 rounds plus. Factory available too at reasonable prices.

So, if your barrel lasts for 1500 rounds, it's actual accurate working life is about 3 seconds.
And if you're lucky enough to get to that 5000 rounds, it's life has been about 10 seconds.
Barrels aren't cheap!
Ken.

 

[Laurie]

Ah! Laurie. A little biased if I may say so. Whatabout the 6.5 Creedmoor. Superb from 100 to 1000yards and a hell of a lot of fun. Cheap brass, convert 22-250, Vih N150 and Lapua 139g Scenars job done. Hours and hours of deep joy.

Keith

Not biased at all Keith. My post is just a comment on the three cartridges the OP asks about. Once it's opened up to any cartridge, the topic becomes one of those endless 'What is the best cartridge?' ****ing matches. Anyway, he already has a 6.5X55mm for stalking / longer-range use. As the owner or past owner of rifles in 260, 6.5X47L, 6.5 Creedmoor, and 6.5X55mm, I'd say that somebody looking for a cartridge that's a bit different (to him or her) doesn't need to acquire another six and a half for this purpose - all four shoot pretty much equally well on the range short of full benchrest competition in a good rifle.

 

[Claret_Dabbler]

Aaron, if this is to be purely a range toy, and you are going to go semi custom, what about a 6mm on a 223 or 223ai case.

Its an easy build on a nice short action, loads of cheap brass and bullets. Probably around 25grs of powder per round.

 

[NigelM]

I have a 6.5 Lapua, 6mm Lapua and am building a 22 BR. Over 300 yds the 6mm Lapua is better than the 6.5 Lapua even though the 10 twist restricts me to bullets no larger than 80 grain. If it was 8 twist and I could shoot 105's it really would win hands down.

The 22 BR is unlikely to be quite as good as the 6mm Lapua as it's 9 twist barrel will not shoot anything more slippery that the 69 grain TMK. By better I am talking the combination of wind primarily and trajectory. The 6.5 Lapua is just a bit slow but as ranges stretch to 600 yds it comes into it's own as the bullet BC's are so good. However, get out to 600 yds and the 7mm's really start to come into their own.

In terms of accuracy both Lapuas are fantastic and if the reports are anything to go by the 22 BR will be just as good. If you are looking for a very accurate round to stretch to 600 yds and beyond I would thoroughly recommend the 280AI.

 

[buck732]

I am going to have to say Grendel I have had mine since 2012. Love the fact I can use it for deer. I have taken it to 1000y and I have not had any issues with it. I load my own and during load development I have used 100g to 129g projectiles. Every thing I put through it grouped less than 1.5inches at 100m. I can get 2700fps with it with 31g of powder and a 123g pill. The best thing for me is it stays on tgt when you pull the trigger, i.e. you don't have to re-aquire the tgt and watch the hole appear.

Bad points ammo costs I have just brought 100 lap cases at £97.00. Hornady factory more (i can't remember its been so long). The availability is pants I once brought the the entire UK stock all 500 of them.

I have a .223 as well but the Grendel is the one that gets the most use.

 

[Whitebeard]

No contest, it has to be 6mmBR, dont need to say why the cartridge speaks for itself.

Ian.

 

[Klenchblaize]

If you fancy a path less trodden, experimenting with the .250-3000/.250 Savage in a modern turn bolt rather than a 100-year old lever gun would be interesting. It will do all you want out to 300 yards, even with an 87grn bullet:

http://cooperfirearms.com/

K

 

[Laurie]

For something slightly out of the ordinary these days, but still very practical in a 'semi-custom' build, you might consider the 223's parent, the 222 Rem - a straight rebarrel of a 223 or 204 Ruger.

There is still some underlying interest in and appreciation of the old Triple Two amongst Accurate Shooter Forum members in the USA demonstrating that although maybe not up to 6PPC benchrest precision standards, it is allegedly a remarkably good performer in a well built modern rifle with today's match barrels. Components aren't an issue as both Norma and Lapua still make very good quality brass and there are more good lightweight 224 match bullets around than you can point a stick at. If I were doing this one for myself (and I have been tempted on occasions) I'd go for a 12-twist barrel rather than the original 14 to suit today's slightly longer 52/53gn match bullets.

Another off the peg model, but practical if you can find someone with a chamber reamer, is the 30BR. I'm doing this one for myself right now with a shot-out 308 Paramount TR rifle. Apart from the necking-up of a 6mm BR case, it involves neck turning and probably annealing too. Performance with 115-135gn bullets is remarkably good and barrel life is allegedly so high that nobody in the USA (where it's used a lot in Benchrest for Score and Hunter-Benchrest competition) knows what the actual figure is.

The standard reamer has virtually nil freebore being designed for ultra-short flat-base match bullets of around 118gn weight and fired in an 18-inch twist pitch barrel, but I've put a recycled 10 twist on mine. I'll try it with the as cut freebore, but if I find that too limiting, will have a gunsmith throat it out enough to take 150/155gn weight bullets. This practice isn't unknown in the US amongst those who are fans of the tiny thirty, but are using it as an accurate plinking and/or varmint cartridge.

For me it'll be a retired gentleman's (AKA old fart's) upmarket plinker and if up to it, 300 yard F-Class rifle too maybe.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Yes, there's no good reason why the 7mm BR is not more popular too. It's certainly a cartridge with potential in other than a long range pistol.

K

 

[Konnari]

I recommend 6XC, standard head size and brass is easily available, super accurate and easy on barrels and you can resize 22-250 in a pinch. Absolutely fantastic round! Available in factory rifles such as Sauer and Blaser.