.22RF zero problem - advice please

[Hook'N'Bullet]

I have had similar issues and found it was the ammo....... Winchester subs. I am going to be trying different brands soon

Winnie Subs - probably the worst/dirtiest ammo I've ever used. Nearly all of them breaking the sound barrier, groups the size of an orange at 50 meters and failure to extract from the chamber. Gummed up the chamber pretty bad.

CCI subs are a bit better. Some still go super sonic. Best I've tried are Eley subs. Half inch groups out of my 455 at 50 meters

 

[bottletopbill]

Brought 800 CCI 2lr for target shooting at club. So hit and miss had the range officers challenge me a couple of times about the noise.
Showed them that these came out of the package and had not been mixed .
They would work well then one would be about three inches of target tried the in various guns but still the same.
The look on other peoples faces when i had a doggy round they were not amused and i had to use them all up.

 

[MAH]

My horizontal aim point to POI remained pretty much spot on

Have you tried different ammunition?
Poor ammunition would cause velocity variation and thus poi variation.
I would have expected "loose " components (scope, mod, stock, etc) to produce total random points of impact
M

 

[Camdig]

Was playing with cci mini mags copper coated the other day shooting tight groups around 50 meters never thought anymore about it.
Went to have a go at squirrels yesterday with cci subsonic and missed the first few put target up and was shooting low and right as I emptied the mag it started creeping back to point of aim, another mag of subs and shooting bang on again

 

[bottletopbill]

Just a doggy batch of CC1 other members of the club have heard the same .

 

[Papa]

Winchester’s went to the wall when the 42gr disappeared, 40gr went crack whenever they liked and grouped like a load of penguins, now using 38gr Eley’s and have no problems.
My shooting partner is atm using CCI subs that make my HMR seem quiet, absolute shitte for a subsonic round.

 

[Rookandrabbit]

Just wondering if you have a wood stock has it got damp OR have you had it nearby to a heat source Especially over this cold snap. Both drying and damp can cause wood to move.
I would suggest it is probably the ammunition. I am by no means a great shot but did notice group size/ movement between batches of .22lr. Change in point of impact from inner ten ring to down and right nine ring.

One older guy at the club range would say he had to adjust his open sights if it was a hot or cold day……….I was NEVER AND NEVER WILL BE that good but my goodness he could shoot!!

 

[Hook'N'Bullet]

Was playing with cci mini mags copper coated the other day shooting tight groups around 50 meters never thought anymore about it.
Went to have a go at squirrels yesterday with cci subsonic and missed the first few put target up and was shooting low and right as I emptied the mag it started creeping back to point of aim, another mag of subs and shooting bang on again

I find it very strange that the mini mags and Subs are having the same POI. Too much of a velocity difference for that. Almost like breaking laws of physics

 

[Hook'N'Bullet]

Winchester’s went to the wall when the 42gr disappeared, 40gr went crack whenever they liked and grouped like a load of penguins, now using 38gr Eley’s and have no problems.
My shooting partner is atm using CCI subs that make my HMR seem quiet, absolute shitte for a subsonic round.

I chronied CCI subs and they were all crusining around 1180-1250 fps out of a 16 inch barrel if I recall correctly.

Subsonic my hole

 

[kamyonsofor]

So... I have a CZ Brno 452 Varmint which I have owned for 15 years and bought new. It's never given me any bother until recently when I felt it was no longer holding zero. I blamed the sight which I replaced with a new Wulf 4K and thought I had solved the problem. Until today.

Went out to check the zero and put seven shots at 35 yards on top of each other. Then went back to 55 yards and added three more to a group that was 2 cm across. So far so good.

Then I got a flyer - POI was inline with the centre of the group but 5 cm above it. And that is when things went south. I must have put at least 150 rounds through the gun this afternoon but my shots kept drifting up and down. My horizontal aim point to POI remained pretty much spot on - 1 cm drift either way. But my vertical aim point to POI was all over the place - sometimes high usually by 5 cm, sometimes low again usually by 5cm, sometimes spot on.

I tried allowing the barrel to cool down. I tried running a bore snake through it. I could not achieve a consistency.

This is exactly the issue that prompted me to change the sight in the first place. I feel like I am back to square one.

I don't think it is the sight. I don't think it is me. I don't think it is the ammo. I think it is the gun.

What should I do? I have never deep cleaned it but I always run a bore snake through it a couple of times before putting it away. Should I get the barrel inspected by a gunsmith? Advice please. Thanks

I have 3xCZ .22 452 455 457 the last 2 are new to me but the 452 is my favourite atm,I have tried various brands and some rounds felt embarrassed as to the targets at 50yds I use splatter dots flyers all over the place, so we start to re zero try another brand no different flyers some 4" off ,so I found CCI mini mags to be the most consistent and accurate even with my 452 at 100 so good I was looking at club competitions even at my age.I have a recent purchase a CZ 455 Evolution that was said to be ammo fussy and only use 1 brand for me not good,stuck mini mags in jeez peppering the splatter centers ,Federal american eagle Geco semi Eley ,Lazers Blazers CCI Velocitors Rws they are like a wet phart +lots of others some that bad I go on the 25 yds just to waste them so but for me its Mini mags.

 

[Camdig]

I find it very strange that the mini mags and Subs are having the same POI. Too much of a velocity difference for that. Almost like breaking laws of physics

Aye the mini mags were grouping about inch higher of poa but grouping reasonably well.
It was the subs after mini mags about 24hrs that were spraying all over.
It was almost like subs were cleaning the barrel possibly copper residue from mini mags after twenty odd subs it was grouping perfectly again

 

[Dunwaters]

Get some decent target ammo and try grouping again.
All .22 ammo throws flyers but the cheaper hunting grade stuff tends to go wherever it likes with very little consistency, it would also be no harm to check your parallax adjustment if you haven’t already done so.

 

[Hook'N'Bullet]

I have 3xCZ .22 452 455 457 the last 2 are new to me but the 452 is my favourite atm,I have tried various brands and some rounds felt embarrassed as to the targets at 50yds I use splatter dots flyers all over the place, so we start to re zero try another brand no different flyers some 4" off ,so I found CCI mini mags to be the most consistent and accurate even with my 452 at 100 so good I was looking at club competitions even at my age.I have a recent purchase a CZ 455 Evolution that was said to be ammo fussy and only use 1 brand for me not good,stuck mini mags in jeez peppering the splatter centers ,Federal american eagle Geco semi Eley ,Lazers Blazers CCI Velocitors Rws they are like a wet phart +lots of others some that bad I go on the 25 yds just to waste them so but for me its Mini mags.

That was the hardest thing I've ever had to read in my life

 

[Hook'N'Bullet]

Aye the mini mags were grouping about inch higher of poa but grouping reasonably well.
It was the subs after mini mags about 24hrs that were spraying all over.
It was almost like subs were cleaning the barrel possibly copper residue from mini mags after twenty odd subs it was grouping perfectly again

I wouldn't worry about copper fouling. Can scrape the plating off with your nail

 

[Camdig]

I wouldn't worry about copper fouling. Can scrape the plating off with your nail

Am no worried about it just trying to understand it in my simple mind, anyway after couple mags of subs it's all good in the hood

 

[Hook'N'Bullet]

Am no worried about it just trying to understand it in my simple mind, anyway after couple mags of subs it's all good in the hood

Dont think I ever cleaned my 455. Shot pretty weel up until the day I sold it. Have a brand new Tikka .22 now

 

[Camdig]

Dont think I ever cleaned my 455. Shot pretty weel up until the day I sold it. Have a brand new Tikka .22 now

Am on Tikka T1x cracking wee rifles

 

[J@son]

Thanks again to everyone who posted offering advice. This has been really helpful. I think I have got to the bottom of the issues I was having
1) bedding screws: one of my bedding screws was sloppy. So I’ve tightened it up. I struggled to find definitive advice re correct/recommended torque so went for 20 inch pounds which seemed sensible. I suspect that (at least on a RF) as long as it’s not loose, it’s tight enough. I don’t know how much the looseness of the screw was contributing to the problem but it certainly wasn’t helping and needed to be tightened up.
2) user error: I find that my rimfire is a lot bouncier (i.e. more movement up and down) on my sticks than my stalking rifle, which sits as steady as a rock. I think some of the vertical stringing i’ve been experiencing is down to this and that I need to be more careful with my POA if I want to improve my POI.
3) expectations: I think my expectations re the size of groups achievable with a RF have been ambitious/optimistic to the point of being unrealistic. I’ve been looking at the patterns achieved beyond 50m with subsonic ammo by people posting videos (bullet drop /ammo reviews) on You Tube. This made me feel a LOT better about my own groups. It was a revelation. Countless people seems completely unfazed by five shot groupings that I wouldn’t want to claim as my own to let alone post online.

I’m going to have a final session up to 70m using a bench rest at an indoor range. And I am also going to see how stingers perform between 70 and 100m. I can store four pre-set zeros in the scope I am using so I will probably end up with 40m and 60m subsonic + 80m and 100/120m for supersonic.

Anyway thanks again everyone. I’ve found it useful and interesting.

 

[Bowland blades]

Not read all the responses . this is the most likely
1. you leave the moderator on and the contamination has corroded the crown ! Solution get it re-crowned and threaded . Might even need a few inches off the end
2. if it shoots with the mod on and not on , buy a new moderator
3. really super clean it in the bore , yeah RF need cleaning use the right suff and a good rod not those shitty pull through things
4. Go buy a box of high grade target ammo , is it shooting great ? If you think Remy thuderbolt are great .... see a doctor ! Is it shooting now
5. try a different scope on it
No particular order just work through it in logical order

 

[gonzo]

Vertical stringing does sound like ammunition velocity variations. Assume this is the same batch of ammo that caused you to change the scope in the first place??
Ask a friend to fire a few groups off in their rifle. See if they get similarly unexpected results.

Bullet strikes on the mod tend to cause serious deflections. I have a couple of 22lr rifle/mod combinations that will be off by a foot at 20yards!
A lose action in the stock could be an issue.
I would be surprised if something touching the barrel would cause a problem, in a 22LR. I don't believe that there is enough energy for barrel harmonics to come in to it, for off hand shooting.

Edit: I had a crappy semi auto that shot like a witch with thunderbolt. Single hole groups at 25yds. I even trimmed the bolt face a bit to get them to feed better (As the case rims were just a touch oversize). It was junk, but I kept it just for that reason.