277 Sig Fury - 80 000psi composite rifle cartridge

[Blobby159]

(80K psi. 3000 fps. Yawn.)~Muir

Hahahahahahahaaaaaa!!.. You are a case my man!.. Talk great sense AND make me laff.!!

Gotta say I get as near as makes no difference with 123gr bullets from my 6.5 Swede.. In fact, I get OVER 3,000fps using RS60 so the power levels are all but identical.. OK I get that this is meant to come from a 16" barrel, which IS pretty impressive I 'spose.

But if I got those .277 Fury rounds in my handloading system I'd want to use a STANDARD Length barrel (by that I mean in the range of 20"->24") to maximise the velocities from this experimental case/cartridge!!.. I would be expecting/looking for something in the region of 3,400->3,500fps in a 20" barrel and dependent on the propellant powder being used, running hard towards 3,800fps with a 24" barrel or so. Now that IS something to crow about with their 135gr bullet, assuming an appropriate, slow powder can be found and utilised !!!!

Would the anticipated 80,000 psi chamber pressures warrant a heavier duty barrel to safely contain this pressure hike or is the metallurgy already up there and able to take this big step up n pressures at trigger time.???

ATB ....... and shoot safely

 

[xavierdoc]

What is the question that this is the answer to?

“Our marketing team need help parting fools from their money so what shall we make?”

 

[alberta boy]

What is the question that this is the answer to?

Good question

 

[ejg]

If one looks at rifle cartridge pressures since Mauser 98 we have seen maybe 10% rise in pressure with newest cartridges however huge developments in materials & material technologies since. Pressure is useless without time... meaning there is more to it than only getting a spike in pressure. For the military it is important to reduce weight of ammo without reducing performance. Increasing pressure can lead to a smaller lighter case with similar or lighter bullets than before if using different case materials. I think a new case, newer technology in cartridge case designs is long overdue. Even small weight savings are important to the military. Reloading of empty cases for example might not be their priority. Why should soldiers carry cartridge cases around that have a potential to be reloaded ten times?
edi

 

[Mr. Gain]

SIG have designed this cartridge for military use in a squad automatic weapon, and what matters there is not what reloaders and precision shooters care about. As I see it, SIG also know that military cartridges can do very well on the civilian market (5.56, 7.62), so they've twinned the .277 Fury with a lightweight tactical style hunting rifle (the CROSS) that they had a design for in their bottom drawer, and used the extra oomph of the .277 to compensate for the short barrel that is part of its lightweight build. I guess it's quite lively to shoot but that this is mitigated by the stock design and the fact that you don't shoot a hunting rifle all day. There's a whole back story about who designed what first, too, so research that if you're interested.

 

[Laurie]

Increasing pressure can lead to a smaller lighter case with similar or lighter bullets than before if using different case materials. I think a new case, newer technology in cartridge case designs is long overdue. Even small weight savings are important to the military. Reloading of empty cases for example might not be their priority. Why should soldiers carry cartridge cases around that have a potential to be reloaded ten times?

100% true. However, you do realise this is in effect a 270-308 round with the case rebuilt to take an extra 20,000 psi pressure? In weight terms it's same as the 1954 7.62X51mm Nato M180 / L1A1 round give or take a few grams. So, it's way heavier than the very efficient 270 and 7mm British assault rifle cartridge developments of the late 1940s and early 50s.

I still find it difficult to see the military accepting this design for a considerable number of reasons.

 

[Blobby159]

Like why do the military want or need a new (heavier cartridge) for their GPMGs when it has long been established that troop engagement distance very rarely even approaches 300yds let alone exceeds that?? The 5.56mm heavy bullet design of fairly recent tines surely suffices there, and - which is surely a definite advantage - needs no additional logistical support and/or development effort or FUNDING!!

ATB ..... and shoot safely

 

[Andy RV]

This is part of the US Army next generation weapon system.

This video covers the three options they’re trialing;

 

[ejg]

100% true. However, you do realise this is in effect a 270-308 round with the case rebuilt to take an extra 20,000 psi pressure? In weight terms it's same as the 1954 7.62X51mm Nato M180 / L1A1 round give or take a few grams. So, it's way heavier than the very efficient 270 and 7mm British assault rifle cartridge developments of the late 1940s and early 50s.

I still find it difficult to see the military accepting this design for a considerable number of reasons.

I see a very simple reason, more energy. Pressure translates into energy. Possible better penetration through body armour, long range, heavier better bc bullet etc. Take any of those cartridges and run it with say 20000psi extra, what extra speed will you achieve? Maybe achieve speeds similar to a cartridge one class higher but less weight.
edi

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Why should soldiers carry cartridge cases around that have a potential to be reloaded ten times?
edi

Or even once if by a potential enemy....

 

[enfieldspares]

Re the .350 Remington. Roy Milward at Aylestone Gun Company in Leicester had one in either that or 6.5mm the lesser diameter calibre. But for sure with the ventilated rib. Ugly as sin it was. As ugly as sin.

 

[enfieldspares]

The problem for most military is when you introduce replacement kit or update tactics it's usually to be capable to fight the last war you just fought AND WON.

Thus the British in the a) the 1920s and b) the 1930s essentially producing and updated Webley revolver that was the Enfield .38" and an updated SMLE that was the No4.

It's when you lose, or near enough lose, because you thought you existing kit inadequate IMHO that you only get radical change.

Thus the British Pattern '13 Enfield in .276 calibre rifle. This .277 Fury IMHO is the Pattern '13 rifle in .276 calibre revisited a century on.

High velocity, high pressure, flat trajectory. A long "point blank" for the extended ranges your last war was shot at.

Yet events don't conveniently follow your wishes. If the actual next conflict is close up urban or jungle of forest fighting the .277 Fury is inappropriate and thus useless.

 

[EigerWand]

more info. plastic case.