been looking at one of these for a little while now,
has anyone got one?
looking to use it for vermin control,
cheers
has anyone got one?
looking to use it for vermin control,
cheers
300 blackout
- Thread starter Woodmister
- Start date
thomas
Well-Known Member
I have a Ruger Ranch fitted with a Boyds laminate stock. With subsonic ammunition I have rifle zeroed at 55yds, this will shoot a (very generous) 1 inch group out to about 75yds at a push. The availability of factory ammunition in both subsonic and HV is quite limited, I use Hornady 190grn expanding subsonic, which do expand remarkably well given the low velocity.
I have only tried 125grn Hornady FMJ in HV which were accurate, POI was about 6 inches above the subsonic rounds at 55yd zero. If you reload it will improve your options no end, as no doubt will range finding and dialling in your scope if that's your thing.
The 300 BLK is quiet, I would say possibly my 308 subsonic has the edge in the noise department, but probably more to do with a different moderator and / or my poor hearing. If you think of the 300BLK as a 22RF on steroids when using subsonic, it has a similar trajectory.
ATB
T
I have only tried 125grn Hornady FMJ in HV which were accurate, POI was about 6 inches above the subsonic rounds at 55yd zero. If you reload it will improve your options no end, as no doubt will range finding and dialling in your scope if that's your thing.
The 300 BLK is quiet, I would say possibly my 308 subsonic has the edge in the noise department, but probably more to do with a different moderator and / or my poor hearing. If you think of the 300BLK as a 22RF on steroids when using subsonic, it has a similar trajectory.
ATB
T
Orion
Well-Known Member
Yes, a Ruger American Ranch Rifle - although Muir must be using those ‘Murican inches as mine has the 16.12” barrel. 
With Trailboss and going subsonic with 90gr Hornady XTP to 220gr bullets of whatever flavour, (and hopefully the Hornady 190gr Sub-X bullet when available as components), all are great if you need to be discreet. Supersonics with Lil’Gun from 110gr to around 180gr - with 110gr V-Max being particularly effective on fox and other medium sized mammals. It’s deer legal on the smaller ones but doesn’t quite make it for the larger species. Having said that the cartridge is used effectively Stateside for both sub and super deer and hog hunting.
Mine has a very low sound signature with the Wildcat Evolution moderator and I’m mainly using it at night with a Pard NV007 add-on to the Sightron S-Tac 2.5-17.5x56 scope and Black Sun Dark Engine IR Illuminator.
Minimal recoil with this combination and powder charges ranging from 9gr to 19gr make it economical to feed.
More information about the cartridge than you’ll ever need HERE
With Trailboss and going subsonic with 90gr Hornady XTP to 220gr bullets of whatever flavour, (and hopefully the Hornady 190gr Sub-X bullet when available as components), all are great if you need to be discreet. Supersonics with Lil’Gun from 110gr to around 180gr - with 110gr V-Max being particularly effective on fox and other medium sized mammals. It’s deer legal on the smaller ones but doesn’t quite make it for the larger species. Having said that the cartridge is used effectively Stateside for both sub and super deer and hog hunting.
Mine has a very low sound signature with the Wildcat Evolution moderator and I’m mainly using it at night with a Pard NV007 add-on to the Sightron S-Tac 2.5-17.5x56 scope and Black Sun Dark Engine IR Illuminator.
Minimal recoil with this combination and powder charges ranging from 9gr to 19gr make it economical to feed.
More information about the cartridge than you’ll ever need HERE
8x57
Distinguished Member
Thomas its pity that your visits to the range at Monmouth have obviously not coincided with those of Sako boy because you could have picked his brain regarding load data. He has shot some remarkable groups with his blackout, basically single hole five shot groups at 100 yards and his whisper loads are also very accurate. Perhaps the whisper should really have been named SBD (silent but deadly). Penyard's subsonic .308 loads are quiet impressive but the whisper is even quieter than those.
Orion
Well-Known Member
Are the 100 yard rounds subsonic? And are you referring to the 300 Whisper as another rifle/cartridge as distinct to the 300 Blackout?
Either way an insight into the bullets and load data being used would be welcome.
thomas
Well-Known Member
I purchased the 300Blk as I wanted to move away from reloading and in the hope that a better selection of factory ammunition would become available given time.......but maybe I will need to invest in some 300BLK dies. It does what I need but it would certainly be good to tighten up the groups a little. Penyard's SS 308 is very impressive, indeed he was kind enough to divulge his load data, out of a standard T3 they shot mightily impressive groups and I am sure have the edge on report...... although the FMJ Lapua's can be rather lively at times!!
8x57
Distinguished Member
Sorry Orion but I can't remember any details of the loads concerned other than the whisper used a 200 or 220 grain bullet where as the Blackout load used a lighter bullet somewhere around 120 grains if I remember correctly.
If you are, wanting to shoot subsonic, quietly, with a moderator, then I'm not sure what blackouts and whispers really have to offer, here.
Their trajectory and useful range will be much the same as .22 LR, just that their bullets are heavier so potentially hit harder, if they don't just go straight through. They don't expand at these velocities.
I know a pest controller who uses a modified lever action in 44 Magnum, magazine tube cut back to fit a custom over-barrel moderator, throwing cast lead semi-wadcutter bullets. Very quiet. These kill by blunt energy, and their diameter. 200 grains vs. 45 or so. Four times the energy and cross section area. But like anything at these velocities they have the potential to bounce around unpredictably if things don't work perfectly.
Downloading something that you already have, using a plain lead bullet, might do a similar job, and is something that I'm familiar with due to the indoor range restrictions at my club.
Their trajectory and useful range will be much the same as .22 LR, just that their bullets are heavier so potentially hit harder, if they don't just go straight through. They don't expand at these velocities.
I know a pest controller who uses a modified lever action in 44 Magnum, magazine tube cut back to fit a custom over-barrel moderator, throwing cast lead semi-wadcutter bullets. Very quiet. These kill by blunt energy, and their diameter. 200 grains vs. 45 or so. Four times the energy and cross section area. But like anything at these velocities they have the potential to bounce around unpredictably if things don't work perfectly.
Downloading something that you already have, using a plain lead bullet, might do a similar job, and is something that I'm familiar with due to the indoor range restrictions at my club.
That's just not true Sharpie. Have you ever owned or hunted with a Blackout? Subsonic projectiles work just as it says on the box... they expand.
The Hornady Sub-X works okay but not great - but it will create a wound channel roughly 1.5x calibre, plus it will tumble of course. It kills deer very dead with a forward shoulder shot. I wish they would release the projectiles for reloaders.
My preferred copper Blackout / .308 subsonic projectile is the Lehigh which is extremely deadly and in its own class expansion wise. It is expensive though so not a plinking bullet. Very popular here. I used it in Blackout first and now in .308 subs occasionally. Mostly I use cast lead simply as an economy. The Lehigh doesn't work in standard twist .308s.
If anyone is confused about subsonic performance on game, then fear not, put a heavy subsonic projectile into vermin (foxes I assume?) then night night varmint. On deer they are deadly and hundreds of bush hunters here use Blackout exclusively over their deer dogs, mostly rebarrelled Tikka .223s. It is an addictive experience, Blackout or subsonic .308, as there's nothing quite like zero muzzle blast in confined, densely wooded areas. As with any projectile, the killing performance is significantly improved by informed and accurate shot placement.
After getting back into subsonics earlier this year, I find I'm reaching for them most times I go for a walk in the heavy timber where shots will be 50m or less.
Last edited:
Orion
Well-Known Member
My Hornady 90gr XTP bullets do, and in a very destructive and terminal manner. They’re designed to do that at subsonic velocities.
For heavier weight specific subsonic projectiles then there’s several options available including Lehigh, Makers, etc. Sadly all based Stateside, so a bit of a faff getting them. Hopefully the Hornady 190gr Sub-X bullet will be made available as a reloading component soon, which will be welcomed.
The thing about the 300BLK that I find most interesting, apart from it’s subsonic performance with a range of bullet weights, is it’s sheer versatility. One minute shooting subs in sensitive locations, and a change of magazine later and you’re reaching out to 250m plus with a 110 V-Max or 125gr SST.
And comparing it in anyway to a .22RF sub for useful range and terminal performance is simply
Last edited:
The blackout, and the whisper, don't meet the UK legal requirements for shooting large deer.
None of them can meet the Scottish minimum of 1750 FPE at over 2450 FPS with a 100 grain bullet.
Nor the English 1700 FPE minimum.
Yes, they can manage over 1000 FPE for small deer, i.e Roe, Muntjac, Chinese water deer in England, Some lighter bullet loadings even meeting the Scottish 2450 FPS minimum requirement, allowing their use on Roe (they don't have the other species).
Though the tight barrel twist is not optimal for the lighter bullets.
So, here, they are at best a small deer calibre, loaded to the max, supersonic levels. Not necessarily a particularly good choice though.
Load them subsonic, with the heaviest bullets, and they deliver maybe four or five times as much energy as a .22LR., but with similar trajectory. If some .30 bullets do reliably expand x1.5 at these velocities, they still don't punch much bigger a hole than a plain lead .44 calibre SWC will definitely do. Should shoot a tiny bit flatter.
And no, I have no experience with the calibre, just studied some facts and data from behind my keyboard. Could be a useful calibre for specialised short range vermin control, with suitable loading, as per the OP's question.
None of them can meet the Scottish minimum of 1750 FPE at over 2450 FPS with a 100 grain bullet.
Nor the English 1700 FPE minimum.
Yes, they can manage over 1000 FPE for small deer, i.e Roe, Muntjac, Chinese water deer in England, Some lighter bullet loadings even meeting the Scottish 2450 FPS minimum requirement, allowing their use on Roe (they don't have the other species).
Though the tight barrel twist is not optimal for the lighter bullets.
So, here, they are at best a small deer calibre, loaded to the max, supersonic levels. Not necessarily a particularly good choice though.
Load them subsonic, with the heaviest bullets, and they deliver maybe four or five times as much energy as a .22LR., but with similar trajectory. If some .30 bullets do reliably expand x1.5 at these velocities, they still don't punch much bigger a hole than a plain lead .44 calibre SWC will definitely do. Should shoot a tiny bit flatter.
And no, I have no experience with the calibre, just studied some facts and data from behind my keyboard. Could be a useful calibre for specialised short range vermin control, with suitable loading, as per the OP's question.
Cobblers. You're guessing again.
Please google images "Lehigh 194gr recovered from deer". Spend some time study the library of wound channels. That should demonstrate to you why the comment about hole size vs .44 cal should be validated before its posted. I said ~1.5x calibre specifically for the Hornady Sub-X, not subsonics as a whole. That's been my experience of them, at around 950fps.
But the Lehigh and similar are in a different league altogether. The Lehigh bullets generate a viciously sharp and tough four petal slicing machine that works akin to a broadhead, just with much more power, creating huge trauma and very fast bleeds.
You are correct in saying the energy delivered by a 194gr projectile is five times that of a .22LR. That's why its not a relevant comparison to make.
When I get home I'll dig out some of my recovered Lehighs and cast lead bullets if I can find them.
Penyard
Well-Known Member
Evening all, I would be really interested in finding a suitable heavy .308 projectile available as a reloading component that is readily available in the UK that I can experiment with to see if I can get tight 100m groups that rival the 200gr Lapua FMJ loads I have. As 8x57 and Thomas have commented, they are accurate but also with enhanced ricochet risk and lacking the desired expansion and knock down effect. Great fun for killing squirrels from a high seat without disturbing the wood but otherwise a bit limited in safe application for hunting!
Orion
Well-Known Member
Just as well that some on here do have relevant experience with the cartridge (not calibre) then!
Specialised short range vermin control only? Tell that to these 200m + acquaintances of a 110gr V-Max
Last edited by a moderator:
What you get up to shooting deer in your country with a 194 grain bullet at 950 fps is your business, no matter whether it might turn into a slicey broadhead arrow equivalent when it hits. That's rather less than 400 FPE. Not much more than a .22 WMR.
Absolutely not allowed here on any sort of deer, and neither do our small, relatively delicate, pest/vermin species really need anything like that.
I don't doubt that it can be effective.
By the way, little chance of getting those specific Lehigh bullets here. Apparently it is possible, once you have paid $275 for the export license fee, jumped through the hoops, and ordered, and waited. I am not aware of any distributor or retailer having bothered to do so, nevermind private individuals.
Shipping Projectiles to U.K. | Lehigh Bullets
Lehigh Bullets is excited to announce that we can now share our projectiles with customers in the United Kingdom. See steps for importing/exporting to the U.K.
www.lehighbullets.com
Shooting at supersonic velocities, yes of course it can work on small deer, but at the end of the day it's just a shortened .223 case, necked up for long .30 bullets, that can only accommodate about 20 grains of powder, designed to fit e.g. an AR15. Limited application here IMO.
Not much different from 7.62x39 Russian, but also not quite as capable.
If just wanting to push .30 bullets out of a tiny case, it looks like it could be quite efficient, but I think you could do much the same sort of thing simply by downloading a more mainstream .30 calibre. Even load the long heavy bullets, subsonic, if your barrel has a suitable twist.
It would not be my first choice for e.g. foxing, unless needing to be very discrete, silent, at short range. As with my controller friend with his .44, which he built to take out foxes at close range (think gardens, parks etc.) in sensitive areas, with authority, having them run off could have caused all sorts of unnecessary difficulties.
I could let you have some of my .30 cast lead stuff in 150 grain round nose, and 170 grain flat tip. But they can't work miracles on small things, at these velocities, and if they bounce off something at these velocities they will keep on going, rather than fragmenting.
Push them faster though and they are deadly, and accurate, but you might have some qualms about how many lead fragments might end up scattered around in the meat that you subsequently eat. As with other bullet constructions.
Just for the record, whether they are available or not, here's a couple of snaps of subsonic Lehighs recovered from very dead reds.
Laws are laws, whether they are sensible or not is another matter altogether.
These are stone cold killers. Forget the numbers, its the tissue wounding that kills the animal, very quickly. A front lung shot just above the heart with one of these creates a gaping great big hole.
Laws are laws, whether they are sensible or not is another matter altogether.
These are stone cold killers. Forget the numbers, its the tissue wounding that kills the animal, very quickly. A front lung shot just above the heart with one of these creates a gaping great big hole.
Similar threads
