swagger700
Well-Known Member
I've 6xc, 6.5creedmoor for copper and 7mm rem mag. Any longer shots have been with xc before I got owt else just seems so accurate with 105 amax never questioned it was enough gun, that's at the ranges I'm confident with
300 Prc for hill stalking deer and feral goat
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Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
In my experience impact on the animal and which cartridge fired the bullet is pretty irrelevant.
Choice of bullet and its construction has far far greater influence on terminal effect.
But far the most important factor is bullet placement. All animals will run if hit by a projectile - it’s their natural instinct. And they will run until they loose blood pressure that stops oxygenated blood reaching the brain and the loose consciousness.
Put a 300 grain bullet from a 375 Cheytac into the guts of a deer and it will go a long long way. Put a little 80gn monolithic bullet from a 243 through the heart and lungs ripping the aorta and its not going far.
As for dropping an animal on the spot, the only way is through catastrophic damage to the central nervous system. Best way is via HILAR type shot taking out the major bundle of nerves towards the front of the chest cavity. It also severs the major blood vessels. But you do need a bullet that can penetrate the shoulders, and one that doesn’t blow up in the shoulder, especially not on the nearside shoulder. Other than having the right bullet arriving with sufficient energy to penetrate, cartridge choice matters little.
Putting the bullet in the right place is function of the rifleman’s skill and how well the rifle is set up for him. Actual cartridge matters little.
Choice of bullet and its construction has far far greater influence on terminal effect.
But far the most important factor is bullet placement. All animals will run if hit by a projectile - it’s their natural instinct. And they will run until they loose blood pressure that stops oxygenated blood reaching the brain and the loose consciousness.
Put a 300 grain bullet from a 375 Cheytac into the guts of a deer and it will go a long long way. Put a little 80gn monolithic bullet from a 243 through the heart and lungs ripping the aorta and its not going far.
As for dropping an animal on the spot, the only way is through catastrophic damage to the central nervous system. Best way is via HILAR type shot taking out the major bundle of nerves towards the front of the chest cavity. It also severs the major blood vessels. But you do need a bullet that can penetrate the shoulders, and one that doesn’t blow up in the shoulder, especially not on the nearside shoulder. Other than having the right bullet arriving with sufficient energy to penetrate, cartridge choice matters little.
Putting the bullet in the right place is function of the rifleman’s skill and how well the rifle is set up for him. Actual cartridge matters little.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
Wot he said
Brave Echo Niner
Well-Known Member
Have to say I respectfully disagree.
From my testing, using equivalent bullet constructions and velocities there is a marked difference in run distance at range when using larger calibres.
While yes shot placement is the most critical part, once the shot is in the right place not all calibres are made equal. I know I can put money on my .300 dropping deer where they stand at ‘extended’ ranges, whereas my 6.5 when impacting at a similar terminal velocity and the same shot placement will have a tendency at runners. The core factor I feel you’ve missed is the impact of shock, which we know occurs due to the research done in ballistics gel and can also be seen in slow motion shots on deer.
With respect to less ideal shot placement I do also disagree, having made less than ideal shots with a .300 (still just in the chest cavity but further back than I would like) they still drop on the spot when one might expect it to run. Compare this to peoples experiences with 6.5s or .243s where deer are making it 100m+ and I know which I would prefer to be using for giving margin for error (which thankfully I don’t use too often).
Ultimately yes, don’t trade off a calibre you can shoot accurately for a larger option you can’t, but you will notice a significant difference stepping up to a .300 from a 6.5 if you can shoot it just as accurately.
Ben
I always said talking about shot placement is moot. We probably all know where the shot should be placed, we might even aim at the correct spot but once the shot is out.... it strikes where it strikes. At that point you will have better chances with larger cal, higher speed and a bullet matched to have the right expansion vs penetration to your animal. Plenty deer lost because of the everlasting quest to loose as little meat as possible due to damage leading to bullets being to hard with too little expansion. Small deer being shot with slow heavy bullets designed to take down large boar or large deer etc. I for one rather loose a bit of meat on a deer.
Especially when it comes to longer ranges I think it is important to run the ballistic app to at least see where the combination will run out of steam. Often a smaller cartridge with better bullet choice can overtake a Magnum.
edi
Especially when it comes to longer ranges I think it is important to run the ballistic app to at least see where the combination will run out of steam. Often a smaller cartridge with better bullet choice can overtake a Magnum.
edi
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Spot on!
The 6.5 will kill any goat further than you can confidently shoot. Goats are light-skinned roany creatures so think hard about your bullet of choice and maybe check out our friends down under where the triple deuce simply does the biz….
Another interesting point I feel it’s worth mentioning is how copper has varying results in varying calibres/velocity.
I have 6.5 and 308 rifles both pushing TTSX about as quickly as safe in each rifle. On roe the 6.5 is far better at putting them down quickly. With the 308 the Barnes tend to slide through and I’ve actually had some reasonably tough follow ups on close range roe with the 308 which always seems odd. The 308 certainly anchors reds with more authority up close (under 200yds) where there is ‘more beast’ to expand the round, but yet to further muddy the waters I think the much quicker 6.5 round kills better at longer range…the 308 tends to drop below the 2200fps sooner I suppose.
Its almost like steel in a shotgun which is fast out of the barrel then slows quickly, it needs a lot of thought and testing, and re sets the rules to an extent.
I rate 6.5’s pretty highly, mine is right there with my 308. A friend used to shoot manage an estate with some of the largest reds in my immediate area and exclusively used 6.5’s. If exclusively shooting big deer at range then I suppose a 7mm/30 magnum would make sense….if that’s what you are doing.
I have 6.5 and 308 rifles both pushing TTSX about as quickly as safe in each rifle. On roe the 6.5 is far better at putting them down quickly. With the 308 the Barnes tend to slide through and I’ve actually had some reasonably tough follow ups on close range roe with the 308 which always seems odd. The 308 certainly anchors reds with more authority up close (under 200yds) where there is ‘more beast’ to expand the round, but yet to further muddy the waters I think the much quicker 6.5 round kills better at longer range…the 308 tends to drop below the 2200fps sooner I suppose.
Its almost like steel in a shotgun which is fast out of the barrel then slows quickly, it needs a lot of thought and testing, and re sets the rules to an extent.
I rate 6.5’s pretty highly, mine is right there with my 308. A friend used to shoot manage an estate with some of the largest reds in my immediate area and exclusively used 6.5’s. If exclusively shooting big deer at range then I suppose a 7mm/30 magnum would make sense….if that’s what you are doing.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
It’s not just copper bullets, there is huge variation in the performance of traditional lead cored bullets as well. For example take a Norma and RWS 100gn lead tipped soft point bullet. The Norma is much tougher abd perfectly capable of punching through shouders of a red hind, the RWS won’t.
There is now big variety in different monolithic bullets all designed for different applications and performance. Some are very good for long range applications on smaller animals, whilst others are much better for close range stopping applications. Just like any other type of bullet you need to choose the right bullet for the right application.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
I think this is true but most cartridges run out energy and velocity well after the shooters skills have eroded. My bullets are traveling at 2000fps with over 1000ftlb of energy at 500m I’m confident that would do the job but unless it’s extremely calm and I’m very steady I usually call it at about 300m preferably a lot less. I don’t think there are many people in a hunting situation who can hit a target first shot at 500m.
pinemartin
Well-Known Member
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