Absolutely, but this is a very obscure re-loading only proposition--especially in NA.
.375 h&h
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Absolutely, but this is a very obscure re-loading only proposition--especially in NA.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
My brother-in-law in France uses a Sako in 9.3x64 with a red dot sight on it for driven boar. He doesn't actually know this though. I had to go and look at his rifle to find out. The full extent of his involvement in the choice of rifle is that he asks his brother to bring it along when they go hunting, and he puts the cartridges that his brother gives him in the rifle. He is also satisfied that it shoots straight because the sight was mounted in the shop when they bought it. The last I heard, he blew a boar's front leg off with it and they never found it.
I've always found his total disinterest in his gear disconcerting, but then perhaps he's too busy actually hunting to worry about such things, whereas I'm in the complete opposite situation.
Danny rem mag
Well-Known Member
Anyway, mines conditioned for use abroad and Scotland and zero in on my permissions with non expanding ammo! I'm in Sussex , and have a 7 RM on an open ticket, but wouldn't put my .308 or .375 on it. I'll pester them again in a few months, maybe with some ballistic charts!
Orion
Well-Known Member
Unless your last application was a few years ago a 7mm RM on open ticket but no .375 or (especially ).308? That's just bizarre.
I wouldn't get into comparing ballistics - just base your application on the 'new' conditioning that should follow the HO Guidance 13.9:
"Once initial “good reason” has been established for the possession of a firearm, there is no requirement for “good reason” to be demonstrated for additional quarry species or amendments providing the firearms are not underpowered for the species"
in conjunction with 13.37;
"Once initial “good reason” has been established for a rifle in shooting “dangerous game”, it may also be considered for shooting the larger deer species and boar in Britain."
Good luck with it.
Paul at Fechan
Well-Known Member
forget everything you think you know about licensing and guidance!
with 375h&h, if you are conditioned abroad you MUST have expanding ammo on your ticket for ''load development and testing''
You cannot be expected to go on driven boar for example with ammunition that is untested in your rifle or hope that ammunition will be made available locally with time allocated by the hosts to check and zero and test. The use of non expanding ammo on driven hunting is simply not acceptable. This is how I got mine opened up for deer etc as to give you s5 ammo you would have it justified by quarry on your ticket
with 375h&h, if you are conditioned abroad you MUST have expanding ammo on your ticket for ''load development and testing''
You cannot be expected to go on driven boar for example with ammunition that is untested in your rifle or hope that ammunition will be made available locally with time allocated by the hosts to check and zero and test. The use of non expanding ammo on driven hunting is simply not acceptable. This is how I got mine opened up for deer etc as to give you s5 ammo you would have it justified by quarry on your ticket
Danny rem mag
Well-Known Member
Thanks gents, I shall state that at them! I knew there was a guideline I could use, but couldn't pin it down. SD at it's best!
Dorsettaff
Well-Known Member
Danny,
'ere in Dawsett they wouldn't wear Paul at Fechan's load development argument even though we argued it long and hard .....however they did capitulate when HO Guidance paragraphs 13.37 and 13.9 were pointed out to them!
Bonkers that you haven't got the .308 but they allowed the 7mm Rem Mag though!
Luckily they are being coerced into line by actions of other Forces and the .375 argument is as solid as the round itself.... You have established good reason and you shoot larger species of deer and boar....therefore expanding ammo and AOLQ should be conditioned..QED!
'ere in Dawsett they wouldn't wear Paul at Fechan's load development argument even though we argued it long and hard .....however they did capitulate when HO Guidance paragraphs 13.37 and 13.9 were pointed out to them!
Bonkers that you haven't got the .308 but they allowed the 7mm Rem Mag though!
Luckily they are being coerced into line by actions of other Forces and the .375 argument is as solid as the round itself.... You have established good reason and you shoot larger species of deer and boar....therefore expanding ammo and AOLQ should be conditioned..QED!
Yeah it was mentioned to me that Dorset don't believe that owt in the UK needs owt bigger than a 30 cal. They don't seem to understand that 30 cal comes in many different flavours.
Hence their unwillingness towards .375 h&h even if it is perfectly suitable.
Not getting the .308 though seems mental aswell since you already have the 7RM. Are they pulling the "but you already have a deer rifle so you don't need another" line?
Hence their unwillingness towards .375 h&h even if it is perfectly suitable.
Not getting the .308 though seems mental aswell since you already have the 7RM. Are they pulling the "but you already have a deer rifle so you don't need another" line?
Danny rem mag
Well-Known Member
Thanks again chaps, I'll sort a meeting with my FAO when I get back onshore next week and sound him out. A quick note on my licence, they will not budge on granting me a .223 unless I surrender my .243! I'm to be trusted with 4300ft/lb but not 1200 odd! So says I to them" you want me to give up my minimum deer legal calibre for a long range pest calibre and use a muzzle braked 7RM 20yds from populated areas?" Yep they said! So I snuck a .204 past them instead! Crazy but true! Anyway as I said any and all info on this classic round is much appreciated and also on the rifle and ammo I have. Ps I'm also a Sussex deer warden.
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Dorsettaff
Well-Known Member
Ah Yes.....Brighton.....Home of Green MPs, fog weavers and people who knit their own shoes!
Maybe if you explain that a .375 is sourced from naturally occurring iron and sustainable wood and if left outside is totally bio-degradable!
Maybe if you explain that a .375 is sourced from naturally occurring iron and sustainable wood and if left outside is totally bio-degradable!
Ah Yes.....Brighton.....Home of Green MPs, fog weavers and people who knit their own shoes!
Maybe if you explain that a .375 is sourced from naturally occurring iron and sustainable wood and if left outside is totally bio-degradable!
Sounds like Ontario...
I bought my first, of the seven I have now owned, .375H&H rifle some 32 years ago, it was a Brno 602. I customized it and it shot very well. but, was a bit heavier than I really prefer for packing in mountains.
I next bought, Oct. 1990, one of the first Ruger MKII Magnum rifles so chambered imported to Canada and I used this for 5.5 months alone in Alberta's Forest Service in "The Eastern Slopes", it shot OK, but, was a hog and I dumped it soon after coming home for the winter.
I had taken this on a fortnight horsepack hunt in remote northern BC, along with my first P-64 Alaskan .338WM, which was a FAR superior rig for this rugged hunting.
I then found, at an obscene price, a genuine P-64 .375 with Recknagel irons and had it installed in my old Clifton composite stock. I used this in northern AB, alone in the bush for four months, my loads were 78-WW760-WW brass-CCI250s-300NP and 76.5-H-4350 all other components the same in all of these rifles. This worked and while I retired from bush work at the end of that season, I kept this rifle for over ten years.
I now have a minty P-64-.375/.300H&H pair, fine synthetic stocks and a 20"STS tubed P-64 in a Micky MC stock, two excellent .375s which I have 300+ Nosler 300Pt. handloads for, but, never seem to use.
To question the .375H&Hs record world wide is ludicrous, but, at the risk of being considered lacking in experience, perhaps "couth" and even one who interacts with G&A mags in some quite unspeakable manner, I have found the .338WM to be a far more useful round in BC and currently own and use seven fine rifles so chambered. I also have four 9.3x62s, often shoot my buddies Ralf Martini 9.3B, on a ZG action I provided him and for serious BC wilderness work the old Bock round suits me best when loaded to 2500 fps-mv with 286NPs.
However, with 50+ years of packing rifles all over BC, some of AB and owning/using many chamberings, I certainly would never tell anyone to use only MY preferences. BTW, the largest Grizzly I know of shot in the Kootenays was killed with a 6.5 MS by a real old timer and one whom I knew as a novice hunter and bushwork beginner..........
All of THAT said, my new Kimber Mtn. Ascent .280AI just came into my gun store and I will SOON have it!!!!!!! Yahoo!!!
I next bought, Oct. 1990, one of the first Ruger MKII Magnum rifles so chambered imported to Canada and I used this for 5.5 months alone in Alberta's Forest Service in "The Eastern Slopes", it shot OK, but, was a hog and I dumped it soon after coming home for the winter.
I had taken this on a fortnight horsepack hunt in remote northern BC, along with my first P-64 Alaskan .338WM, which was a FAR superior rig for this rugged hunting.
I then found, at an obscene price, a genuine P-64 .375 with Recknagel irons and had it installed in my old Clifton composite stock. I used this in northern AB, alone in the bush for four months, my loads were 78-WW760-WW brass-CCI250s-300NP and 76.5-H-4350 all other components the same in all of these rifles. This worked and while I retired from bush work at the end of that season, I kept this rifle for over ten years.
I now have a minty P-64-.375/.300H&H pair, fine synthetic stocks and a 20"STS tubed P-64 in a Micky MC stock, two excellent .375s which I have 300+ Nosler 300Pt. handloads for, but, never seem to use.
To question the .375H&Hs record world wide is ludicrous, but, at the risk of being considered lacking in experience, perhaps "couth" and even one who interacts with G&A mags in some quite unspeakable manner, I have found the .338WM to be a far more useful round in BC and currently own and use seven fine rifles so chambered. I also have four 9.3x62s, often shoot my buddies Ralf Martini 9.3B, on a ZG action I provided him and for serious BC wilderness work the old Bock round suits me best when loaded to 2500 fps-mv with 286NPs.
However, with 50+ years of packing rifles all over BC, some of AB and owning/using many chamberings, I certainly would never tell anyone to use only MY preferences. BTW, the largest Grizzly I know of shot in the Kootenays was killed with a 6.5 MS by a real old timer and one whom I knew as a novice hunter and bushwork beginner..........
All of THAT said, my new Kimber Mtn. Ascent .280AI just came into my gun store and I will SOON have it!!!!!!! Yahoo!!!
SNAP, I just love hearing about other nice rifles with character which other people have enjoyed owning, especially one I owned, or coveted, even if I no longer have it.
I had, for a short while, a Brno 602, and it is a fine rifle.. just too long and muzzle heavy for me, and the stock had seen a lot of wear, so I let it go when the Ruger salesman offered me his sample M77 African. That was a gorgeous rifle, but too bulky and heavy ( 10.25 lbs). The Circassian Walnut stock, i was afraid, was too figured and too soft for the recoil. I sold it, and bought my first pre-64 Winchester.
When I called the rancher from whom I purchased by Sako L61R, I asked how it was in such good condition, and why he was selling it. Because, he said, it is a nice weather rifle, and he has a Sako Mannlicher stocked carbine in .375 H&H. Now that is a practical DGR rifle for a horse and thick woods and brush.
I had, for a short while, a Brno 602, and it is a fine rifle.. just too long and muzzle heavy for me, and the stock had seen a lot of wear, so I let it go when the Ruger salesman offered me his sample M77 African. That was a gorgeous rifle, but too bulky and heavy ( 10.25 lbs). The Circassian Walnut stock, i was afraid, was too figured and too soft for the recoil. I sold it, and bought my first pre-64 Winchester.
When I called the rancher from whom I purchased by Sako L61R, I asked how it was in such good condition, and why he was selling it. Because, he said, it is a nice weather rifle, and he has a Sako Mannlicher stocked carbine in .375 H&H. Now that is a practical DGR rifle for a horse and thick woods and brush.
.338 Win Mag is no doubt an excellent cartridge. It's a curiosity that it is not more popular in other parts of the world. Incidentally, it is not a true "magnum" with respect to the powder capacity to bore ratio. It is the ballistic twin of the .333 Jeffrey (as is the .338-06 to the .318 [actually a .333] Westley Richards).
If one compares cartridges and considers bullet weights with similar sectional densities, it is easy to make parallels between the small and medium bores. The 6.5x55, 7x57mm, .30-06 and .375 H&H are all considered some of the best "balanced" cartridges with respect to powder capacity to bore and bullet weight ratio, and all have essentially duplicate trajectories when comparing bullets of similar SD. They are, in a sense, "sister" cartridges insofar that they achieve the same ballistics just in different calibers and with bullet weights of same SD.
The .280 Remington is closer the the .338 Win Mag in this sense. (SNAP, no wonder you love both cartridges).
I've owned two rifles in .338 WM. One, a plain M70 Sporter w/24" tube and 2-7x variable, accounted for several heads of game. Sold it. Nothing wrong with the cartridge, but I found that between my 6.5mm/7mm small bores and my .375 and .45-70s, it inadvertently started to collect dust.
If one compares cartridges and considers bullet weights with similar sectional densities, it is easy to make parallels between the small and medium bores. The 6.5x55, 7x57mm, .30-06 and .375 H&H are all considered some of the best "balanced" cartridges with respect to powder capacity to bore and bullet weight ratio, and all have essentially duplicate trajectories when comparing bullets of similar SD. They are, in a sense, "sister" cartridges insofar that they achieve the same ballistics just in different calibers and with bullet weights of same SD.
The .280 Remington is closer the the .338 Win Mag in this sense. (SNAP, no wonder you love both cartridges).
I've owned two rifles in .338 WM. One, a plain M70 Sporter w/24" tube and 2-7x variable, accounted for several heads of game. Sold it. Nothing wrong with the cartridge, but I found that between my 6.5mm/7mm small bores and my .375 and .45-70s, it inadvertently started to collect dust.
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I almost forgot, elderly brainfa*rt, in the mid-1990s, while my primary .375 was my first P-64-70, I bought a Browning Safari LE somewhat customized with Recknagel irons and Pachy Decelerator plus full epoxy bedding. It shot nicely and was a pretty piece.
I, however, did not care for two things about it and one with my three original P-64-70s.
The Mauser action, is TOO short for the H&H cartridges and I find that, EVEN WITH superb smithing, they really do not feed as smoothly as a Mod. 70 or Dakota 76; this, to me, is a major issue and crucial in a rifle of this type used where genuinely dangerous animals are quite commonplace. So, I sold this piece and kept only one of the original P-64s plus had the 20" tubed carbine built on a salvaged P-64 action.
To my mind, the Brno 602/CZ-550M actions and the massive, far too heavy Ruger MKIIM are too large, bulky and heavy for a sound .375 H&H and are far more suitable for big "African" rounds; many of my buddies have these, but, I am too old to pack an 11 lb. rifle in the mountains all day.
I would strongly concur, for WORLDWIDE use, NO cartridge equals the old H&H warhorse, but, for the mountains of BC, Alberta, the Yukon and NWT, all of which are places I have been, there are choices I consider better and the .338WM is first among these. Yes, I DO "love" the .280Rem/.338WM combo and with good handloads, nothing works quite as well and the costs are also less which means more $$$$ for more guns!
I, however, did not care for two things about it and one with my three original P-64-70s.
The Mauser action, is TOO short for the H&H cartridges and I find that, EVEN WITH superb smithing, they really do not feed as smoothly as a Mod. 70 or Dakota 76; this, to me, is a major issue and crucial in a rifle of this type used where genuinely dangerous animals are quite commonplace. So, I sold this piece and kept only one of the original P-64s plus had the 20" tubed carbine built on a salvaged P-64 action.
To my mind, the Brno 602/CZ-550M actions and the massive, far too heavy Ruger MKIIM are too large, bulky and heavy for a sound .375 H&H and are far more suitable for big "African" rounds; many of my buddies have these, but, I am too old to pack an 11 lb. rifle in the mountains all day.
I would strongly concur, for WORLDWIDE use, NO cartridge equals the old H&H warhorse, but, for the mountains of BC, Alberta, the Yukon and NWT, all of which are places I have been, there are choices I consider better and the .338WM is first among these. Yes, I DO "love" the .280Rem/.338WM combo and with good handloads, nothing works quite as well and the costs are also less which means more $$$$ for more guns!
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It will be interesting to see how the .375 Ruger does, comparatively. Still too early to tell...
Which Mauser action are you referring to? I have seen 'std' length action 'modified' to fit the .375 H&H, but these are usually compromises. My commercial magnum Mauser 98 in .375. 5 rnd magazine, 23" barrel, English stye sporter stock (walnut) comes in at a trim 9 lbs and is the smoothest feeding rifle in my lot. I would never consider an 11 lbs rifle in this class. I'm an athletic guy, 6', 195 lbs and I've no problems with a 9 lbs rifle. Recoil is not bad with a well fitted stock and good recoil pad. My original .338 WMs recoil was similar, with more muzzle blast and slightly higher recoil velocity--definitely less pleasant to shoot.
Which Mauser action are you referring to? I have seen 'std' length action 'modified' to fit the .375 H&H, but these are usually compromises. My commercial magnum Mauser 98 in .375. 5 rnd magazine, 23" barrel, English stye sporter stock (walnut) comes in at a trim 9 lbs and is the smoothest feeding rifle in my lot. I would never consider an 11 lbs rifle in this class. I'm an athletic guy, 6', 195 lbs and I've no problems with a 9 lbs rifle. Recoil is not bad with a well fitted stock and good recoil pad. My original .338 WMs recoil was similar, with more muzzle blast and slightly higher recoil velocity--definitely less pleasant to shoot.
JabaliHunter
Well-Known Member
My guess is that the fact that it is chambered in relatively inexpensive, yet rugged and reliable Ruger 77s will help it spread. I have heard that it is gaining popularity in Alaska as an all-round rifle/cartridge and in Scandinavia for elk. If the combination is distributed in South Africa I can see it becoming popular there too. Time will tell.
I love the weight, balance and the way the Model 77 in .375 Ruger points, and I hope it makes it. If I were a young man with no .375s, I would buy one, for sure.
But I am not young, and have brass and loads from my previous .375 H&Hs.
I owned, for a brief time, a custom square bridge magnum Mauser in .375 H&H, built by Krieghoff and some more work by Griffin and Howe on the stock and scope. That was a nice rifle, and fed ammo so slick that I was afraid it hand not picked up a round. It and a SxS H&H became trade goods for a collection. I did not need anything that nice for my hunting... but, wow!
Exactly, the Browning Safari rifles, that is the good ones, used the fine FN Supreme action, albeit with a MickeyMoused ejector/housing that differs from PPM's original fine design. While an excellent base for a hunting rifle, especially the initial "Deluxe" full "C-ring" versions, these are just too short for the .375 and while the best British makers and USA smiths would open them at the REAR, NOT at the ramp as with cheap versions, there is just too abrupt an angle for a longer round to feed as it will in your magnum version
The fact is that with any of this, the first consideration is $$$$$$$ and, IF, you can AFFORD a Fred Wells, Stu Satterlee or Prechtl action, fine, no problem, the .375 H&H is IT, no question. However, while I could get something like this if I really wanted to, I am a working mountain man, or was and I only buy rifles/gear that I consider a value and am not worried about dinging.
I am sure I would love YOUR .375, but, most, including original P-64-70s are just TOO heavy and LONG for BC conditions. So, I am selling mine as well as about 25 other fine rifles and just keeping what I know I will use in whatever hunting I can still do.....just got an invitation for a late Elk hunt in northern BC last evening and will take my pair of Dakota 76 .338s or the new Kimber Ascent .280AI and my light FN custom .308Norma...probably the latter.
So, many guns, so little time....................
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