7mm08
- Thread starter Hw60sniper
- Start date
As I understand it the benefit of the 7-08 is at extended ranges. i.e. beyond 300m type of distance. For most peoples hunting use that is irrelevant. The other benefit is slightly less recoil? Can't the same thing by achieved with say 308, 270 by down-loading it to shoot same weight bullet at same velocity if that is what is desired?
Fad: An intense and widely shared enthusiasm for something, especially one that is short-lived; a craze.
I somehow doubt that this particular “fad” is going to be short-lived.
7mm08 vs 6.5CM out to 1200m? The 6.5 wins every time. Its about refinement of the case : bullet effectiveness, and the 6.5CM makes a better fist of the long / heavy for calibre bullets than the 7mm-08 does. At 1200m, that’s ~5ft of come-up, or in other words roughly 10% less drop (143gr ELD-X vs 150gr ELD-X).
For general hunting purposes, across a wide spectrum of medium game, there’s nothing to separate them in terms of how the animal feels about it. I have both 6.5 and 7mm, and can assure the undecided that a well placed hunting bullet from either does exactly the same thing. It would be daft to assert that one is that much better than the other when any practical differences in the ballistics (external or terminal) are so small that the error introduced by the shooter will be orders of magnitude greater.
The 6.5CM fussy to reload? Cobblers. Its the easiest cartridge I’ve ever worked with and I don’t know a single bloke over here who has struggled in the slightest to achieve mind boggling accuracy from any bullet in the 120-147gr weight range. Its a gem to reload for.
There’s a lot in this statement. The problem I have with a lot of what gets written about shooting roe deer is that they are such small and lightly built deer yet it seems lots of blokes want to shoot them with heavy frangible bullets at high velocity, from close range. And they wonder why they blow a massive hole in the animal.
The flip side is that by shooting them with relatively fast, heavy, hard bullets like Accubond, if you make a mistake the animal is more likely run as the bullet construction is less forgiving, and the animal can easily be lost. And unless you hit solid bone the hard bullet will carry on for as long as it takes to hit something behind the animal, as it will use only a portion of its energy inside the animal.
The old timers had it right; slow, medium weight, moderately soft mushrooming bullets work best for little deer. Very dead with very little waste. When the cretin in the Department of Rules made your deer legal regulations, they cut out a host of time proven slower cartridges that are very effective for little roe deer. A 30/30 or anything ballistically similar would be perfect. I grew up on roe and fallow with a very mildly loaded .243 and a variety of old school expanding bullets including the Speer round nose. I didn’t know it at the time but my grandpa was loading them slow, specifically to avoid messy exits, and man were they effective. All the action happened inside the beast’s chest cavity, and runners were very very rare.
So when it comes to the 7mm-08, an excellent all rounder, if you are hand loading, you can do all sorts of wonderful things, as it is so versatile. Often hand loaders get obsessed with stretching the top end of a cartridge’s capabilities and completely ignore the fact that by downloading it with an appropriate bullet, they have a cartridge that is far better suited to the class of game they are hunting.
I’d love to have a field wager - me with a 2200fps 170gr round nose, the competition with a 2850fps 140gr plastic tip, the local butcher and the game keeper as the judges. Roe deer and fallow to be shot inside 100m. I’d bet my dog that the slow and heavy would win, for meat quality and degree of bang-floppery. I think I’ve just convinced myself to go buy another 30/30, must be 30 years since I had one.
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150 grain at 2800 can be done with many cartridges including a 308 or 06 and achieve the same result, no? It strikes me that unless you are shooting very longer (targets really? or like Dodgy knees gets opportunities and extended ranges then by getting a 7-08 you are just limiting your options for heavy bullets?
There is nothing I shoot in the UK that requires anything heavier than 150 grains. From Roe to big Reds 150 grains is plenty big enough, some would argue too big and if Roe is the target quarry I will pick up the 6mm instead, but wouldn't hesitate to shoot one with the 7 if that's what I had with me and have done so. If you are looking to minimise wind drift and retain as much energy as possible out to 300 meters it makes sense to go with the highest BC bullet available in that weight, hence the 7mm. With a BC of 0.295 (g7) you need to go to a 190 grain bullet in 30 cal to get the same efficiency and that's a whole lot more recoil if you want to send it at the same velocity.
The difference in wind drift between a 150g 7mm ABLR at 2770 and a 150g 308 AB at 2850 in a 20 mph wind (90 degrees) at 250 meters is about 9.5" vs 12.5" and retained energy is about 1800ftlb vs 1700ftlb. The 7mm flys straighter and hits harder. Why would you want to take the extra 3" wind drift and loss of energy? They just increase the risk of getting it wrong or making the decision not to take the shot.
It can be very genuinely argued that a 143 grain bullet in a 6.5 which is slightly more efficient than the 150g 7mm is an even better option and I couldn't argue with that, cutting wind drift by a further 1" in the scenario above and delivering very similar 250 meter energy to the 308. The benefit of the 7mm is that if you do want to go and shoot something like moose or boar you can load up with 175/180 grain bullets and still have something that works better than a 308, although not as well as a 30-06 I admit, and if you want to shoot LR you can hit gongs at 1000 meters comfortably without dropping into the transition zone. It's my all rounder.
At the end of the day we all have our own reasons for using our chamberings of choice and most of them will do a great job. If you want to have the ability to push your ranges a little or take a shot in higher winds you have to minimise the risk of making errors and the new bullets allow us to do that without making any compromises. To get that efficiency in 30 cal you have to go 190 grain which is heavier than I want to go. Hence 7mm.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
I have been using 7mm-08 for some years now, in my Steyr fullstock with a 20" barrel. I've used Federal Vital Shok, Power Shok and Fusions in 140gr and 150gr. I found them all excellent both for accuracy and on deer, with a preference for the fusions which seemed to make a bit less of a mess. Then I started reloading mostly for supply reasons, and I use a 150gr bonded hollowpoint on top of 39.1gr of N-140. It's a bit more accurate than the Federals, but it doesn't really matter in the field. The bullets I use are a bit slower and heavier than the fusions but with a similar construction. They do indeed blow quite big holes in deer, but they're also quite forgiving of slightly off shot placement, and my priority is killing deer quickly, not having an extra 300g of mince.
scrumbag
Well-Known Member
You will get close to similar performance with the Geco 165gr Soft Points. Last time I bought a box of 50 is was £58! (YES £58)
The deer man
Well-Known Member
Have a try with 162gr in the 7mm-08, better than the 150's and a truer comparison to the 6.5 Creedmoor using 143gr. If the Creedmoor lives longer than a fad, that's great, good to have the variety but it'll only happen here in the UK if gunshops allow it and stock the ammo. Otherwise it'll sadly stay like so many other good calibres over here and only be captured by reloaders.
The deer man
Well-Known Member
I know, mad prices! That's why I reload the 7x64 now using Sierra 160gr HPBT and so far so good, in fact very good!
Waterbuck
Well-Known Member
Hi I am not a calibre buff so could you explain how this is different to the Rem Mag or indeed the standard.270? Just if you have time/ out of interest
Waterbuck
Well-Known Member
7x64 is a lovely round.
Hw60sniper
Well-Known Member
No really a buff myself WB but just going with what calibres I've fired and out of the 6.5x55, 7mm-08 and. 308s that I've fired I preferred the feel off the 7mm-08. Your. 260,. 270. 280, 3006 and the like I've never used so can't compare.
scrumbag
Well-Known Member
Sadly he's right
The 7-08 was the first deer legal calibre rifle I bought so I have a soft spot for it.
I managed to get several box’s of 140gr nosler ballistic tip bullets to load my own ammunition. Out of my 19 1/2” barrel I get 2720fps and sub .5 MOA groups.
I have taken Fox, muntjac, Roe, fallow and lowland Reds with excellent results. Shot placement is key as with any calibre, however even with a poorly shot beast I haven’t experienced excessive meat wastage or trauma.
As the rifle was my first I have been on a journey trying out alternatives, trying to better it.
I had a .308 for a while and loved the ease of picking up ammunition. Such an easy calibre to load for and cheap accurate ammunition on the shelf if needed. My personal view is recoil is greater and I didn’t see any advantage to the terminal impact over the 7-08.
I now have a 7X64 Blaser R93 and really like it. A slower shove type of recoil.
I have just taken delivery of a 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5X47 and will see how I get on.
Although the 7-08 still sits in my cabinet and it is safe to say I will never move it on. It isn’t old faithful.
The 7-08 works well out of a shorter barrel which I really like.
PPU make cheap 7-08 for £84/100
I managed to get several box’s of 140gr nosler ballistic tip bullets to load my own ammunition. Out of my 19 1/2” barrel I get 2720fps and sub .5 MOA groups.
I have taken Fox, muntjac, Roe, fallow and lowland Reds with excellent results. Shot placement is key as with any calibre, however even with a poorly shot beast I haven’t experienced excessive meat wastage or trauma.
As the rifle was my first I have been on a journey trying out alternatives, trying to better it.
I had a .308 for a while and loved the ease of picking up ammunition. Such an easy calibre to load for and cheap accurate ammunition on the shelf if needed. My personal view is recoil is greater and I didn’t see any advantage to the terminal impact over the 7-08.
I now have a 7X64 Blaser R93 and really like it. A slower shove type of recoil.
I have just taken delivery of a 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5X47 and will see how I get on.
Although the 7-08 still sits in my cabinet and it is safe to say I will never move it on. It isn’t old faithful.
The 7-08 works well out of a shorter barrel which I really like.
PPU make cheap 7-08 for £84/100
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