7x57R Viht load

[Motard]

attention error typing NON R kind . You can use the subtracting 4%. later will post R kind ones.

 

[Motard]

ū good ntt69

attention error typing NON R kind . You can use the subtracting 4%. later will post R kind ones.

here loads for Rand cartridges please mind german manuals often don' bear minimal charges but only the maximum allowed. is up to you developing the rounds in a safe stair

 

[Scipio]

this are the loads listed for R cartridges. Mind that modern kipplauffbuchse with jager system can withstand same bolt action charges or, if you want to be realky conservative, you can downgrade BA loads of a 4,%.

Yep, i have heard that, which is very cool. - but can R brass take the same pressures as the regular brass, ie can the x57 R brass handle non Rs pressures?

 

[Motard]

I bet yes. Both Cip & Sami regulation are alway way lower the maximum pressures for brass calibers and a good example is the venerable 6.5x55 aswell 30-30. Both can be loaded as modern and effective cartriges with charges way over the stated maximum. And modern powders are more efficient in reducing pressures peack. My 6xc is whorking perfectly with e hot charges iver the specs. what I mean is that if you don't buy scrap brass and precede step by step in a safety way with charges you can reach a good features level with no risks for you and for the rifle

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Yep, i have heard that, which is very cool. - but can R brass take the same pressures as the regular brass, ie can the x57 R brass handle non Rs pressures?

The kipplauf barrel to frame locking methods are never going to be as strong as a rotating bolt action will be. 7x57 pressure limit is 3,300 bar the 7x57R pressure limit is 3,000 bar for example.

 

[Motard]

you are right Sir if considering the old style locking sistem used on most break action rifles and express too. And they needs tuning too. But I'd just say: "kow your's weapon". Both kipplauf I have (haenel and merkel) bears the jager system (also is in use on K95 blaser) with a steel-on-steel design: a lock block self raising into a slot carved from the rear of the chamber, and capable of full sealing it. This method is the same used in artillery and is known to be able to withstand exteremy hard pressures. Mine are also hunter's, not range rifles, so I am confident i'll make no harms, me and them, if runninh on the hot side (as written before not my first choise, I way prefer mild costant charges). Same aply to Blasers R8 that don'have tenons but a stellar closure wich is at least on pair with hight end bolt action style rifles, if not better. Then: test-test and test again Your's loads.
jager block

 

[Motard]

Hallo Scipio, just had a few spare time on Pc and loaded the data of your's issued Gordon's load on my QL (not the last version cause I did'nt bother updating since e long time). In the two attached files youll'find (in one) the progression of combustion with N150 and (in the other) the expected results with different powders. Bewhare I could not find the TTSX 120 listed on you's gordon simulation so I picked up the nearest Barnes 120grain bullet on Ql archive. Would not be the first time Barnes changes reference number on very same bullets but is up to you checking with a caliber the real leght of the bullets (and possibibly the bearing surface) because off the great effect of a bare thent of mm on pressure rising. This lead us to the second alert: max pressure allowed by gordons is way lower than the one listed on QL therefore your's load in my simulation is yellow painted (it means on the lower side and efficency of a charge) whilts to me the best charghes are in upper purple level. Btw, I avoid the reds charges when possible. Anyway please verify your's rifle real strengh before appling.

 

[Scipio]

Thank you very much @Motard , that is very kind of you

The kipplauf barrel to frame locking methods are never going to be as strong as a rotating bolt action will be. 7x57 pressure limit is 3,300 bar the 7x57R pressure limit is 3,000 bar for example.

hello @Bavarianbrit , yes indeed, but that might, @Motard described, mainly be down to mechanical strength/weakness of the common break open rifle designs of the past, not the jager ones.
The Jager break open rifles can also be chambered in full pressure non rimmed cartridges, like the 270 for example, so can likely handle normal 7x57s pressure quite well. But of course if one has the R and wants to be on the safe side, staying inside the suggested pressures is to be recomended. And i quite doubt that the stalker or his quary will be able to tell much difference.

 

[Motard]

You'r welcome @Scipio, RS60 seems the universal "Panacea-Powder" if following QL. It is on first place aswell for 6xc and (if I remembre well) ande 6x65R. I hav'nt direct experience with it but is known as a throat and rifle devorer but very capable compund.

 

[Scipio]

You'r welcome @Scipio, RS60 seems the universal "Panacea-Powder" if following QL. It is on first place aswell for 6xc and (if I remembre well) ande 6x65R. I hav'nt direct experience with it but is known as a throat and rifle devorer but very capable compund.

Thanks again @Motard - i'll answer you more fully in the regular 7x57 reloading thread. That way the R advice for Antony wont risk getting lost amongst the regular 7x57 advice

 

[Lateral]

RS60 works for me, for Sierra Pro Hunter SP 120gn, & 140gn, And RWS 139gn SP.

 

[Leupsak]

I run the same 120grain bullet with N140 and have had excellent results in a K95.
Would anyone know the max powder load as I have gingerly worked up a load but think I could go higher but don’t want to start without some guidance, no pressure signs or issues up to 44grains.

 

[webley701]

Thank you very much @Motard , that is very kind of you

hello @Bavarianbrit , yes indeed, but that might, @Motard described, mainly be down to mechanical strength/weakness of the common break open rifle designs of the past, not the jager ones.
The Jager break open rifles can also be chambered in full pressure non rimmed cartridges, like the 270 for example, so can likely handle normal 7x57s pressure quite well. But of course if one has the R and wants to be on the safe side, staying inside the suggested pressures is to be recomended. And i quite doubt that the stalker or his quary will be able to tell much difference.

As mentioned above - the Franz Jäger patent (tilting) breech block fully supports the cartridge without transferring the usual loads to the action as seen with other designs of break open rifle. The rifles by Scheiring, Merkel & Blaser using this breech are chambered in cartridges with service pressures well in to the 60 thousands PSI.

The rimmed 7x57 case is if anything marginally stronger around the head due no need for the sizeable undercut to form the pseudo rim.

None of this is to encourage hiking pressures but without a doubt the traditional mechanical constraint with other break open rifle designs are not a significant consideration with the Jäger breech.

 

[Scipio]

As mentioned above - the Franz Jäger patent (tilting) breech block fully supports the cartridge without transferring the usual loads to the action as seen with other designs of break open rifle. The rifles by Scheiring, Merkel & Blaser using this breech are chambered in cartridges with service pressures well in to the 60 thousands PSI.

The rimmed 7x57 case is if anything marginally stronger around the head due no need for the sizeable undercut to form the pseudo rim.

None of this is to encourage hiking pressures but without a doubt the traditional mechanical constraint with other break open rifle designs are not a significant consideration with the Jäger breech.

Hello @webley701 , - yes, that was indeed also my impression. Quite interesting that you believe that the R cases might be more mechanically resilient to the effect of firing and pressure than their non rimmed brother cartridges. .-)

 

[Motard]

Only issue I see in R cases is the head spacing at the rim. Need some craftsmanship to change spacing at the shoulder maintaining as good chambering. But it is really needed if you want plenty of reloading for every shell.

 

[Scipio]

Only issue I see in R cases is the head spacing at the rim. Need some craftsmanship to change spacing at the shoulder maintaining as good chambering. But it is really needed if you want plenty of reloading for every shell.

Hello @Motard .-) Do you mean that "more craftsmanship" is needed when resizing an R case well vs a non R case?

 

[Motard]

Hello @Motard .-) Do you mean that "more craftsmanship" is needed when resizing an R case well vs a non R case?

Yes, ideally you shoukd care about two spacing head & rim

 

[webley701]

Only issue I see in R cases is the head spacing at the rim. Need some craftsmanship to change spacing at the shoulder maintaining as good chambering. But it is really needed if you want plenty of reloading for every shell.

You don’t head-space on the rim when hand-loading.

 

[Motard]

You don’t head-space on the rim when hand-loading.

right sir. but then you must be extemely consistent with shoulder headspace because one only thou will not allow your gun to close or shot. Reason to always full lenght resizing when loading for kipplaufs

 

[webley701]

right sir. but then you must be extemely consistent with shoulder headspace because one only thou will not allow your gun to close or shot. Reason to always full lenght resizing when loading for kipplaufs

Full length resize - yes certainly - but as with any rifle, only FL size enough to allow easy chambering - there’s no need to push the shoulder back more. This is done with reference to the actual fired case shoulder position.
There’s nothing overly difficult about it; works for double rifles & Kipplaufbüchsen as well as it does for everything else.