7x65R using Fox bullets for my drilling - didn't think that was going to work!

Pine Marten

Well-Known Member
Once again I have been surprised at the extent to which reloading is just alchemy and not proper science at all. Yesterday I finally made my way down to the BSRC at Bisley with a box of reloads to test in my Simson drilling, using 145 gr Fox Classic Hunter lead-free bullets. I'd sort of fudged the Viht tables and landed on five test loads at 0.5gr increments from 47gr of N550 to 49. But first things first: the NRA requires that you shoot a special zeroing target before doing anything with non-lead, in the presence of an official RO. It is a totally nonsensical hoop to have to jump through, but them's the rules. To this end I'd brought along leftover factory rounds, but the thing is, I just couldn't quite place the three required shots in the black circle. It wasn't that surprising, these were the leftover rounds from loads the rifle didn't like, hence the fact that they were left over. So I tried a second test target, which started eating into my test loads, and just about scraped it, so I could move on to the proper load testing. But this wasn't looking promising at all.

Anyway, what with tweaking the zero for these new rounds under the well-meaning eyes and friendy sledging of the ROs (they're nice people, it's OK...), my standard zeroing target started to look like I was using the shotgun barrels.

Target1.jpg

At times like these you really have to make the effort to trust the method, because this was going nowhere. Maybe my drilling just didn't like non-lead bullets, or at least not these Fox ones and I'd have to go on a series of wild goose chases. From my reloading notes:

1. 47.0gr - "No idea, can't tell" (there wasn't even a group)
2. 47.5gr (that's the big middle orange target) "3 inches"
3. 48.0gr - "A bit better..."

But all of those were bad, honestly. And then, at 48.5gr, the second bullet hit an inch from the first. But two shots are not a group. So I concentrated on the 3rd, and lo and behold! A group! So I pushed my luck and threw another at it, adjusting the windage a bit. BOOM!

Target2.jpg

"You've found the node!" says the RO. So just for the hell of it and the sake of completeness, I tried the 49.0gr ones (bottom left). There isn't even a group there, nothing, waste of time, powder, and a growing bruise on the shoulder.

Honestly, developing loads is stressful and doesn't make any sense. I'm done with this. 48.5grs of N550 and a 145gr Fox bullet and that's it. We're done.
 
Glad you found something that worked, PM.

Now, buy up lots of those 145gr bullets and a spare pot of powder whilst you can ;)
 
My experience of shooting combination guns is you have to shoot very slowly leaving plenty of time for the barrel to cool between shots. And I know that you also know this

How you manage to do this under the supervision of RO sucking his teeth etc probably means you need a medal for patience!!

I got more than acceptable groups with 50gn of IMR 4350 under the 145gn Fox bullet.

Boris the Boar doesn’t like them. One behind the shoulder at 3am under the light of the moon between snow showers at 80 to 100yards. He ran 20 yards.
 

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I'd test it just once more to be sure but well done.
Agreed, the amount of times I’ve achieved similar with my 6.5 and loaded up 10 more to try, only to find they are pants.
Could be a coincidence but hasn’t happed Once since I changed to an rcbs press from a Lee challenger.
 
I'd test it just once more to be sure but well done.
I mean ideally, you can never have enough testing and practice, but attending a range day in Bisley means half a day off work (or creative skiving), an hour's drive each way, and calling in childcare favours. So I'm going to trust that I can replicate that 48.5gr load. It's not blind faith though, it's not my first home-rolled recipe... The 7mm-08 ones using the 130gr Fox bullets turned out perfect, as did the previous lead ancestors. And I don't use a Lee press, but an RCBS one!
 
My experience of shooting combination guns is you have to shoot very slowly leaving plenty of time for the barrel to cool between shots. And I know that you also know this

How you manage to do this under the supervision of RO sucking his teeth etc probably means you need a medal for patience!!
I did pause between groups, but it was 30 degrees out there, there wasn't a lot of cooling to be had... Actually the two ROs were being very friendly and helpful. They'd been having a trying morning with some of the other punters and some duff kit. How they keep their patient demeanour is a mystery and admirable! I let them have a go on the drilling with the leftover useless rounds just for fun at the end.
 
Having made up a batch of 7x65R reloads and since I had to go to Bisley anyway to rezero the 7mm-08, I thought I'd test the definitive versions, in the hope of going out to try them out live soon. Well I'm happy with this too! Notice that after the first two shots from a cold barrel, the bullets then go walkies upwards. You only get one go with the drilling. Maybe a follow up. But one should be enough!

20231115_120403.jpg
 
Having made up a batch of 7x65R reloads and since I had to go to Bisley anyway to rezero the 7mm-08, I thought I'd test the definitive versions, in the hope of going out to try them out live soon. Well I'm happy with this too! Notice that after the first two shots from a cold barrel, the bullets then go walkies upwards. You only get one go with the drilling. Maybe a follow up. But one should be enough!

View attachment 337453
That’s not really walkies. Any of those shots is into the kill zone of most deer. My combination gun does third shot 4” high!
 
When I live on the continent and used to watch the guys zeroing their drillings they always shot their groups really slowly (I suppose with the heat from each shot you have 2 extra barrels pulling on the rifle barrel and that barrel tends to be longer than most so if there's deviation it is magnified)

Scrummy
 
With Eds help and in within 9 bullets the fox 130 classic were in one hole for the very old Abolt .270 fox data says use X col ! and they were crap they printed 1 .0 with the fox load data 1700564187922.png

then an Email to Ed and he said to push them back into Y and then they printed with all 6 rounds tested over two powder combo's under 1/2 for both the

RL 221700564254037.png Then N160 1700564084825.png thanks to Ed's Data and advice,
now after a bit more tweaking it its as good as I think it needs to be . 1700563991407.png
 
When I live on the continent and used to watch the guys zeroing their drillings they always shot their groups really slowly (I suppose with the heat from each shot you have 2 extra barrels pulling on the rifle barrel and that barrel tends to be longer than most so if there's deviation it is magnified)

Scrummy
Yes, the interaction of those three welded barrels shift things around after a couple of shots, the rifle barrel is very slender. But on the other hand, the 24" barrel (short action) means you can really push the loads and burn up all that powder. With very happy results.
 
Once again I have been surprised at the extent to which reloading is just alchemy and not proper science at all. Yesterday I finally made my way down to the BSRC at Bisley with a box of reloads to test in my Simson drilling, using 145 gr Fox Classic Hunter lead-free bullets. I'd sort of fudged the Viht tables and landed on five test loads at 0.5gr increments from 47gr of N550 to 49. But first things first: the NRA requires that you shoot a special zeroing target before doing anything with non-lead, in the presence of an official RO. It is a totally nonsensical hoop to have to jump through, but them's the rules. To this end I'd brought along leftover factory rounds, but the thing is, I just couldn't quite place the three required shots in the black circle. It wasn't that surprising, these were the leftover rounds from loads the rifle didn't like, hence the fact that they were left over. So I tried a second test target, which started eating into my test loads, and just about scraped it, so I could move on to the proper load testing. But this wasn't looking promising at all.

Anyway, what with tweaking the zero for these new rounds under the well-meaning eyes and friendy sledging of the ROs (they're nice people, it's OK...), my standard zeroing target started to look like I was using the shotgun barrels.

View attachment 313838

At times like these you really have to make the effort to trust the method, because this was going nowhere. Maybe my drilling just didn't like non-lead bullets, or at least not these Fox ones and I'd have to go on a series of wild goose chases. From my reloading notes:

1. 47.0gr - "No idea, can't tell" (there wasn't even a group)
2. 47.5gr (that's the big middle orange target) "3 inches"
3. 48.0gr - "A bit better..."

But all of those were bad, honestly. And then, at 48.5gr, the second bullet hit an inch from the first. But two shots are not a group. So I concentrated on the 3rd, and lo and behold! A group! So I pushed my luck and threw another at it, adjusting the windage a bit. BOOM!

View attachment 313840

"You've found the node!" says the RO. So just for the hell of it and the sake of completeness, I tried the 49.0gr ones (bottom left). There isn't even a group there, nothing, waste of time, powder, and a growing bruise on the shoulder.

Honestly, developing loads is stressful and doesn't make any sense. I'm done with this. 48.5grs of N550 and a 145gr Fox bullet and that's it. We're done.
Issue with that being, if you get any variance in powder charge or it’s a temp sensitive powder your group will open up again.
 
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