850nm vs 940nm IR for Foxes?

[Mac78]

Having spent a bit of time in the field now with IR I'm now of the conclusion that foxes can definitely see 850nm.
The faint red glow that emits from 850nm I'm pretty sure wouldn't be detectable at several hundred yards? Poimt a concentrated beam on high power at a Fox at distance and they are fully aware of something being pointed at them.

I wonder what they can actually see at that distance or does the 850 wavelength irritate their eyes?
I've found Badgers dislike 850nm and usually move away or turn their backs to the light. Deer generally seem to be unaware of the IR.

As I understand it 940nm produces less of a visible red glow to the human eye, with the trade off being less capable at distance and producing less clear images through digital viewers.

What's everyone's experiences with Foxes reaction to 850nm IR?

Thermal is obviously the solution but my pockets aren't deep enough!

 

[MagicLantern]

Before I had a thermal monocular, I used 940nm to reduce the chance of foxes being alerted. Now, I use the thermal all the time with an 850nm on a narrow beam and only switch on the IR at the very last moment.

My view is they can see 850nm illuminate the ground around them and this makes them cautious and if they are lined up on the beam, they can see the red light. The ones I've shot that seem interested in the beam and look at it, I think are just as interested in what they can see illuminated out the back of the sight which is probably 25% of my face and maybe the unmistakable silhouette of a man's head. Then it's a matter of whether their twitch reflex is as fast as my trigger finger.

 

[morrisman]

I wonder if they can see the flashing effect rather than the light itself.

 

[Cyres]

They don't like it esp the v wary one I tried to get last night. There is a distinct red glow to my on board IR on my N470s. It was looking straight at me at 100yds or so and as soon as I put on IR it fled like a scalded cat. Best thing is take bolt out and put rifle on bonnet or stand, NV on and walk out to 100yds. I bet you can see it.
I use a Night Fox 940 and it's v dim but super with a Photon. Badgers can also be quite sensitive to 850 if they are looking at it esp if it's a powerful torch. I would say if you foxs are pretty normal and not heavily shot 850 dimable is fine. Otherwise 940nm essential. Also v good for rats.
D

 

[Gunner223]

Ive tried 940 and 850, in the end I found the 940 didn't have the distance of the 850 ,but that was a few years ago.

 

[CookM]

Only ever have used 850,it works fine for me.
Using field craft and working the wind,l do as others and light them up at the last opportunity.
Thermal spotter guides me in,sight on rifle screen off standby.
Shoot.

 

[Tf223]

I wonder at the last minute theorey on the IR lamp. If the fox is in close and it suddenly come on won’t that spook it more?
I tend todo the reverse and put it on at the first sighting (with thermal) that way there’s a constant light, rather than something that suddenly comes on when the fox is close, and in my opinion liable to spook.

 

[CookM]

I wonder at the last minute theorey on the IR lamp. If the fox is in close and it suddenly come on won’t that spook it more?
I tend todo the reverse and put it on at the first sighting (with thermal) that way there’s a constant light, rather than something that suddenly comes on when the fox is close, and in my opinion liable to spook.

Thermal spotter,digi nightsite.
I shoot several. It works for me.Rarely lose them to spooking.
They are usually 75 to 125 yards.

 

[Warbucks]

IMO foxes can see the glow of the i/r, but not the beam.
Foxes that spook on the i/r have been hunted before (shot at with i/r or lamp).
If a fox is walking away from you and you switch the i/r on, it doesn't turn round to see where that light came from.
In general you are only going to be using one i/r on the n/v rifle, IMO this needs to be the best allrounder (range, clarity, dimmable ?) for me this has to be 850nm or there are going to be too many time's in poor weather conditions where your not going to get the range and clarity needed for foxes at longer ranges, i think we have to accept that we won't get every fox we see (safety and other things), so we need to use more care when we know that the fox is laser shy.
Pulsar c50 is capable of shooting fox on a moon lit night without i/r but i still prefer half a second of i/r before pulling the trigger, or wait till its looking away from you.
Iv'e had a few i/r shy foxes over the last 9 years, if they stay on my permisson's i will eventually get them.

Little tip here, if you can only shoot fox from one certain position (safety, comfort ect) don't miss if using i/r or the fox will look in that direction every time it goes there -------don't ask me how i know.

Dave (warbucks)

 

[Overlay]

I had Clive ward knock me up a non glare IR for rats and rabbits, I don't know what model it is, but it really does work well on rats and rabbits, gonna give it a go on short range foxes as well, they can be a little jumpy when your right on em

 

[Pellet Pinger]

Can’t say i’ve encountered that many ir shy foxes, thermal definately helps you to get the gun on the sticks and poised for the shot before you light them up, most seem a bit gormless round here TBH lol.

 

[User00036]

Foxes that associate IR with a loud bang, dont like to hang around game cams for too long. IR is a lot more spooky when crops/stubble are wet after a rain, the reflection is greater. It just means different tactics, baiting, sitting & waiting, using a thermal until the fox is close. I've had good results after shy nv foxes, using a scope mounted light, or lamping from a truck. Its a refreshing change from all this skulking around, most foxes haven't seen a lamp after all this NV use & you can crank up the mag on your scope, better ID, & shoot at longer ranges than I could using my NV.

 

[Bramble]

What Warbucks said.

 

[Mac78]

They don't like it esp the v wary one I tried to get last night. There is a distinct red glow to my on board IR on my N470s. It was looking straight at me at 100yds or so and as soon as I put on IR it fled like a scalded cat. Best thing is take bolt out and put rifle on bonnet or stand, NV on and walk out to 100yds. I bet you can see it.
I use a Night Fox 940 and it's v dim but super with a Photon. Badgers can also be quite sensitive to 850 if they are looking at it esp if it's a powerful torch. I would say if you foxs are pretty normal and not heavily shot 850 dimable is fine. Otherwise 940nm essential. Also v good for rats.
D

You make a good point there. Glow appears very faint to my eye, but to Mr Fox it could be a different story.
Definitely worth investigating how much of a red glow there is from the torch at distance.....

 

[CookM]

I reckon mine are not so bothered as roads are fairly busy some nights,are they assumed to be seeing tailights and not bothered by that maybe.

 

[Mac78]

Foxes that associate IR with a loud bang, dont like to hang around game cams for too long. IR is a lot more spooky when crops/stubble are wet after a rain, the reflection is greater. It just means different tactics, baiting, sitting & waiting, using a thermal until the fox is close. I've had good results after shy nv foxes, using a scope mounted light, or lamping from a truck. Its a refreshing change from all this skulking around, most foxes haven't seen a lamp after all this NV use & you can crank up the mag on your scope, better ID, & shoot at longer ranges than I could using my NV.

A friend was saying exactly the same the other day regarding lamping. Fox he'd been after for ages finally succumbed to an old spotlight. Farm is surrounded by roads so Foxes are used to headlights of vehicles, so there's no association with bright lights and danger(other than being ran over of course!)

 

[CookM]

A friend was saying exactly the same the other day regarding lamping. Fox he'd been after for ages finally succumbed to an old spotlight. Farm is surrounded by roads so Foxes are used to headlights of vehicles, so there's no association with bright lights and danger(other than being ran over of course!)

Yes l have gone back to the lamp odd times,usually when checking the stock and catch one out by surprise.
Be rude not to take the rifle just in case.

 

[Mac78]

I use an older Nightmaster 800IR with Pulsar Recon for spotting. Nightmaster is incredibly bright on its highest setting, but toggling through the 3 brightness settings is a pain as is focusing.
I've a dedicated Foxpro with Pard 007 on the rifle.
I wonder if one of the newer torches with 850, 940nm & white LED could be a better choice for spotting.

 

[CookM]

Could be,one size fits all.

 

[3.5mag]

I've had too many foxes spooked by 850 IR and use thermal scopes only now.