Advice req for a Thicko regards 30-06

[ben0850]

Hi All,
For donkeys I have used Sako ammo in my 30-06 (rifles a Sako 85) and have not really had much to complain about but due to difficulty in gaining usual ammo (150gr) and also a few issues i've switched to Hornady 180gr Custom Sp's.

Now the difficult part for said thicko (me).. I don't do target stuff and I am not a ballistic guru or even begin to think about home loads etc. I do however from time to time dial in the turret on my Zeiss V4 (its MOA not ASV).

The Zeiss app is giving me wildy different information to the Hornady app when it comes to moa / clicks... for example... rifle zeroed at 100mm.
at 150m Hornady tells me 1.13 moa (or 4.5 clicks) Zeiss tells me 4 so ok, not a mile out... however the longer the range the more the discrepancy.. at 200m H = 11 clicks / Z = 9 clicks... at 300m H = 26 clicks / Z = 22 clicks and so on..#

I dont really shoot out much further than 200 ish but i always want the confidence in the tackle should i need it.... I have entered the same information into both apps and get differing results.

Should i take the information from one as being more accurate than the other or sack em both off and pray to god lol

 

[gixer1]

Shoot it at the range you shoot at or want to and get the actual distances.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[Bowland blades]

Hi All,
For donkeys I have used Sako ammo in my 30-06 (rifles a Sako 85) and have not really had much to complain about but due to difficulty in gaining usual ammo (150gr) and also a few issues i've switched to Hornady 180gr Custom Sp's.

Now the difficult part for said thicko (me).. I don't do target stuff and I am not a ballistic guru or even begin to think about home loads etc. I do however from time to time dial in the turret on my Zeiss V4 (its MOA not ASV).

The Zeiss app is giving me wildy different information to the Hornady app when it comes to moa / clicks... for example... rifle zeroed at 100mm.
at 150m Hornady tells me 1.13 moa (or 4.5 clicks) Zeiss tells me 4 so ok, not a mile out... however the longer the range the more the discrepancy.. at 200m H = 11 clicks / Z = 9 clicks... at 300m H = 26 clicks / Z = 22 clicks and so on..#

I dont really shoot out much further than 200 ish but i always want the confidence in the tackle should i need it.... I have entered the same information into both apps and get differing results.

Should i take the information from one as being more accurate than the other or sack em both off and pray to god lol

Forget computers initially ! put some targets out at 50 yard intervals , to say 3-400 yards . Choose a day with a light following or head wind, traveling on a reasonably level bit of ground .
Decide on your shooting high at 100 yards limit , set it then shoot a cool barrel 3 shot group at each target . record group centre from aiming point ( remaining centred on the bull )
You will learn far more about trajectory , then work on windages for this you need one set wind value 10 mph full value ie 3 o clock and 9 oclock . The rest is then practice in reading and adjusting for different winds
computers are great but you must first understand that which i mention
Other than that
Zero at 200 yards and do a lot of shooting

 

[plumber01]

as some poor sod who has looked into trajectories, i was given a good telling by an old boy, he used to say, just about any center fire rifle, if zero is 100, it tends to be 2 to 3 inches at 200, and typically 8 to 12 at 300. He didn't shoot things further away and didn't miss much.
He would say, a foxes head at 200, and its shoulder height at 300.
However , look at charts and there's not a lot of difference between a 243, 308, or even a 270 .
good luck

 

[Lateral]

Any of the app's, need to know the actual velocity of the ammunition you're using, if they're to be in any way reliable.

The velocities listed on the ammunition box, if it even has it, is a generic number, based on a given barrel length, normally 24". If you have a similar length barrel, you may be lucky, and it will be close enough.

But if you have a much shorter barrel, the velocity could be several hundred FPS slower, and the generic data not so useful.

That said, if you're only shooting out to 200m, dialling is pretty mute, the drop is small, and the target area relatively big, unless you're head shooting, and you could just hold over an inch, or two.

 

[Bowland blades]

zero at 200 , shorter range it wont matter. you can go quite short to pretty long ( in deerstalking terms ) with that zero . remember a 2" increase at 200 yards in elevation is only an inch at high at 100 and 1/2" ( likely less at 50 yards )
shooting in winds will always be more important to factor in

 

[Heym SR20]

Lots of things can have an effect on the actual point if impact compared to what the data says.

1) Rifle barrel - some are fast, some are slow. Depending on how its made and probably where in the production of the tooling some barrels will have tighter bore than others, will be smoother etc. this will all affect velocity. Biggest effect is barrel length. Shorter barrels produce less velocity than longer barrels.

2) cartridge and powder - again the differences in burn rates will also have a big effect.

Your actual velocity could easily be +/- 100 or perhaps 200fps of the box advertised velocity.

3) height of sights above the bore. This can have a big effect and worth playing with an app and seeing difference that 1/2” can make on the trajectory curve.

4) the stock, shooter, shooting position etc. as soon as the trigger is pulled a rifle will start to recoil and the bullet leaves the barrel at some point as it rises. A rifle will shoot very differently with a 20 stone solid lump behind it in a prone position compared to a 7 stone person standing up. And increase in recoil will have a big effect.

Etc etc etc

No app can take into account all these variables. Even the military with standardised rifles, scopes and ammunition will know this. And its why marksmen and snipers spend hours and many thousands of rounds on the range working out their own drops.

The only way that you can work out where your bullet actually hits is by spending a lot of time actually shooting it.

Or shoot at a distance to target where actually none of the above really has an effect.

The preponderance of lots of technology I think has just made everything that much more confusing for the vast majority of hunters.

When the simple zero 1” or 4cm high at 100 and hold centre of kill zone out to 150 to 200 ish (yards or metres) just works for 90% of most hunting situations.

If you want to shoot further then be prepared to use quite a bit of ammo and time working out what works for you.

I know from shooting targets that 300 for me with my stalking rifles is not consistent enough for me to take those sorts of shots. I get closer, or pass them up. Others will do things differently.

 

[ben0850]

Thanks for all the input chaps, makes me yearn for my old fixed zoom scope lol