Age limit

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farquarson

farquarson

Active Member
Hi everyone,
Could someone tell me if there is an age limit for the DSC 1.
My son is very interested and I would like to know how soon he could do it.

Thanks

F.
 
I did talk to a feo on the subject after the last time this came up and he said that young people could possibly be granted a temporary certificate like a visitors permit to use a nominated rifle for the tests. This hasn't been done yet though to my knowledge but it would be on a case by case basis and level 1 would certainly be a good reason for such a grant of a temporary permit to meet the legal requirement for using a rifle.

Certainly though there is no age limit to do level 1 but sorting out the permit would be the tricky bit.
 
The easiest way would be for the shooting element to take place at a Home Office approved club in accordance with the rules relevant to approved clubs either as a member of that club or as a guest on a notified guest day. The ammunition used would of course be non expanding. In the case of our club the age would be a minimum of 14 for centrefire rifles due to insurance limitations and club rules.
 
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It could be that some clubs do not have a minimum age but the kid would still have to be physically capable of handling and firing the rifle unaided from the three positions. No doubt some kids are large enough and have the physical atributes to do so especially if using something like a light to medium weight .222rem.
 
I suggest that you contact Jon Snowdon, (local to you) at Greenleadeer he runs DSC1 courses and is an accredited witness too, you can probably get his address via "roestalker" on the SD site. I have done the DSC1 course there, and it was really well run
 
patrickt said:
I suggest that you contact Jon Snowdon, (local to you) at Greenleadeer he runs DSC1 courses and is an accredited witness too, you can probably get his address via "roestalker" on the SD site. I have done the DSC1 course there, and it was really well run
Click to expand...

Not quite sure how this helps as regards the age question Patrick, or are you simply recommending Jon Snowdon in general as regards DSC courses?
 
paul at barony said:
I did talk to a feo on the subject after the last time this came up and he said that young people could possibly be granted a temporary certificate like a visitors permit to use a nominated rifle for the tests. This hasn't been done yet though to my knowledge but it would be on a case by case basis and level 1 would certainly be a good reason for such a grant of a temporary permit to meet the legal requirement for using a rifle.

Certainly though there is no age limit to do level 1 but sorting out the permit would be the tricky bit.
Click to expand...
On our last DscL1 course we had a young lad aged sixteen using his fathers rifle on a temporary certificate for the duration of the course
Best regards..Dave
 
Hello all,

There are issues here and speaking from experience we have had 2 youngsters taking the course in the past.

1) Unless the candidate has his own FAC it cannot be done apart from using a a home office approved range.

2) If the candidate does have their own FAC (14 and above) then they have to be accompanied by their parent or guardian for their practical shooting and safety assessment and have their own rifle. The estate rifle facility cannot be used until they are 17.

3) In the above case (14+)they would also have to have the wording on their FAC "any land deemed suitable by the chief constable of that area" and not a closed ( named land only) certificate. they cannot under any circumstances use the estate rifle facility until they are 17.

4) If they didn't have the clause above (14+) then they may be able, via the parent or guardian, to get a variation purely for the course.

5) Temporary certificates are not commonly issued.

Hope that helps.

Best regards.

Roestalker.
 
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If some constabularies are prepared to issue temporary certificates for this purpose good on them for being so flexible and adaptable, but I'm not sure if the issuing of temporary certificates for such purposes is actually legally correct?
 
I share 8x57's scepticism regarding the strict legality of issuing a Section 7 permit for this purpose. However I could not be absolutely certain that it is not lawful, I think that it is not. I am not aware of any decided cases (Case Law) that would help.
The reason for my scepticism is that a Section 7 permit may authorise possession (and use) of a firearm and ammuntion, without holding a firearm certificate. However it does not authorise acquisition of a firearm nor ammunition. This aspect is specifically pointed out in Chapter 15 of Firearms Law-Guidance to The Police 2002.
The enigma would appear to be 'how does one use a firearm and ammunition without acquiring it in the first place' ? Borrowing is a form of acquisition.
BASC is a Home Office Approved shooting club. It follows that, where a DSC L1 course is BASC run, on an approved range (with safety certificate etc.) Use without any form of certificate or permit (by a BASC member) would be lawful and this is exemption has been regularly used on such courses, sometimes using club firearms. The question of age, in that case would depent on club rules. Most clubs do not permit persons under fourteen years of age to use full-bore rifles. That is due to considerations, other than the strictures of the Law itself.
Speak with the firearms team at Marford Mill and they should be able to advise where BASC stands on the age aspect in relation to the 'club' exemption.
 
How is use and aquisition the same thing? The person with permit uses while rifle the owner provides under supervision and the ammunition for it. The permit holder doesn't ever own the rifle or ammunition or have independent freedom of use with it.

This whole Home Office Approved thing is a problem though in the real world. When my kid wants to do level 1 and he will then I'd want him to do it with me and with my rifle in a weekend course. I don't want to have to then travel to a range that might be 100's of miles away for 20 minutes assessment when a bit of common sense and an appropriate permit would applow him to take the test with the people that were on his course in the same conditions and in a relaxed environment at our facilities.

And what if he wants to do this when he is 12? The home office range option doesn't apply then does it!!!
 
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Hello Paul
I'm sorry if my advice has irritated you but I believe it to be sound. Please don't 'shoot the messenger' as I am trying to help. Firearms law and procedure are frustrating in so many ways.
If I had a young son, I would share your desire to do the whole thing together. If you and your son were both (BASC or Other) Club members and the Club was ok with a person under 14 using a full-bore rifle for DSC L1 shooting test, on their range, there is nothing to prevent him using your rifle. It does not have to be a Club rifle.

I cannot help you regarding the location of courses and ranges in your area. However you may well find that other DSC L1 providers are also registered as Home Office Approved Clubs and have their own ranges. The BDS certainly have access to ranges but I am not aware as to whether they are also a Home Office Approved Club. No doubt others with more knowledge of BDS or similar providers may be able to help.

I do not know BASC position in relation to members under 14 using full bore rifles under their Club exemption but it may be worth a phone call to find out. BASC have a strong position opposing age restrictions so may well be supportive of a 12 yr old taking the test. I am not aware of any reason in Law that precludes it.
Best wishes for a good resolution.

paul at barony said:
How is use and aquisition the same thing? The person with permit uses while rifle the owner provides under supervision and the ammunition for it. The permit holder doesn't ever own the rifle or ammunition or have independent freedom of use with it.

This whole Home Office Approved thing is a problem though in the real world. When my kid wants to do level 1 and he will then I'd want him to do it with me and with my rifle in a weekend course. I don't want to have to then travel to a range that might be 100's of miles away for 20 minutes assessment when a bit of common sense and an appropriate permit would applow him to take the test with the people that were on his course in the same conditions and in a relaxed environment at our facilities.

And what if he wants to do this when he is 12? The home office range option doesn't apply then does it!!!
Click to expand...
 
We use our Home Office Approved club for guest days and to run rifle courses. BASC can and does have under 17's and under 14's on level 1's, but these are under the auspices of the Home Office Approved Rifle Club or with a 14+ with a firearm certificate suitably conditioned. The demand is very low and we probably only see 2 or 3 requests a year.

If you need further clarification please give me a ring

Many thanks, Peter
 
hello 8X57, actually, what I was trying to do is, put the person in contact with an organisation who would be able to answer the question far faster than I could have done so at the time, with regards to recommendation od Greenlee, Iam all for endorsing good providers of DSC1 courses, and this combined with the question askedI hope would have assisted the query for farquarson, I hope this assists you too
 
Thanks for all the information guys.
Think we will have to save his pocket money, wait till he is 14 and then see what is happening then.

Regards

F.
 
That's fine Patrick I was just wondering if they were by any chance a H.O. approved club which would have been a bit unusual but not impossible. I know for instance that BASC and the BDS are so could under the right conditions accept young shooters who do not hold firearms certificates.
 
THank you for your reply 8X57, we certainly get answers on the SD site, good bad or indiffrent, but always infomative


patrickt
 
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